TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[bhtooefr]

I have been a subscriber to the SEC enforcement updates for almost two years now (because of interest in a different stock potentially subject to proceedings). One can subscribe easily through their website. From that, it appears to me that in a large number (probably the majority) of cases where the rule breaker (i) did not seek direct personal gain, and (iii) settled, the SEC agreed a 5 year D&O ban plus a monetary penalty. I suspect that is what was offered here.

If that's the case, no wonder Musk's lawyers turned down the settlement.

FWIW, while not a lawyer... if the SEC can't prove any ill-gotten gains, AFAICT the maximum possible monetary penalty for this civil action is $100,000 (outside of a settlement where they could ask for whatever they want of course). The D&O ban is far more damaging of course.

 

[Causalien]

Think about it, Elon would of course fight. If he fought, he doesn’t have to admit guilt which would screw his chances with the shareholder suits. Imagine how much they would kill him if he settled with he SEC. Worst case scenario for us is if Tesla stock dips due to to Elon losing, then he gets to take it private at a discount! Win-win for Elon... lose for us shareholders.

Damn, that's a maneuver I would pull. But Elon is not as evil as me.

 

[gora321]

Let me express one pure speculation-fiction from short point of view.

Imagine if you can pick up time when to announce such SEC information. Would it be before Q3 production report or after?
If Q3 production would be good, than you have to pick SEC announce right before Q3 release because with relative stable price and bomb like this you will get big dip (-10%) today and you have opportunity also next week to have more effect. If you do it opposite than you are risking that Q3 report could prevail.
How you will do it? By media of course, so you can have exactly timing.

Let suppose that you are smart shorter with big (volume) bet against TSLA. You know that you cannot win in the long term. You need to pull yourself out and you need a prefect storm to cover. You need to create big selling pressure so you are able to go out. Time (facts) are ticking against you. You have a looot of $. You can buy almost everything. You control everything except Tesla and his smart boss.
You set him a trap so he can go easily away if he admit wrong doing. He did not fall because he is smart and he will reveal the truth as always. Time is ticking. So action should be fast. We have tons to cover.

Let me see if volume in next two days will be huge?

 

[Earlian]

The timing of this news coming out exactly with 1 trading day left right before the week where Tesla's final proof of profitability is most probable - well that is very, very suspicious.

Now we know, why taking private would have been better for the future of humanity, but maybe not for our money (tiny private investors)
and maybe Elon should take Tesla private anytime he can and don't look back again.

Don't think twice: IF they bring Tesla down and there is no good selling long-range EV over some years, the big automakers can (and will) proclaim anytime, that is wasn't proftable, wasn't working, wasn't clean, wasn't whatever and stop their EV developments anytime!

We are not there, not quite!

Fingers crossed for our sustainable future.

TODAY it is NOW or NEVER friends!

 

[hobbes]

Yes, this is my reading of the situation. Musk acted in good faith, even though his choice of words was not maybe the best. Musk's lawyers believe he has a solid case should it come to court.

Can also be they received some new material information, like an emails from a Saudi Prince stating "Of course I offered to fund a private deal"...

One thing for sure, never a dull-moment with this company. I'm not sure that's what I signed-up for when I bought shares, but it's what I've got.

Only regret, as usual, is having no spare cash to buy....

Just bought a few more shares, nothing substantial, already makes me feel a bit better about the drop .

 

[CuriousSunbird]

Does he have a duty to option holders, though? Especially put option holders? (Other than the basic duties that anyone

)

That would probably be under general law rather than securities law. Although, given the usual habits of federal prosecutors, they would probably say "you used a mass communication medium (the internet) to do the damage and therefore it's wire fraud"

 

[ValueAnalyst]

So I gather if we are close to 10% wouldn’t it make sense for a Tesla long to just push it past the threshold and immediately rebuy the shares? Short halting would be absolutely amazing.

It’s a new era when bulls ASK FOR price manipulation...

 

[Causalien]

8 ball says a drop of 5% from the sec charge

The previous +10% jump still hasn't been realized. Production number probably got leaked.

 

[theschnell]

The extreme irony of this whole situation is that Musk tweeted about taking tesla private because the stock price was rising too quickly and he thought the opportunity was about to be out of reach.

To word that more directly, the shorts were about to get burned, and Elon saved them in effort to try to save his go private consideration.

Shorts should be extremely thankful to Musk for saving their butts, and then they should cover while they can.

 

[Ulmo]

If any effective class action lawsuits against the SEC for stock price manipulation in concert with Fake News is started, let me know, because I'd like to consider joining them.

 

[Ulmo]

The extreme irony of this whole situation is that Musk tweeted about taking tesla private because the stock price was rising too quickly and he thought the opportunity was about to be out of reach.

To word that more directly, the shorts were about to get burned, and Elon saved them in effort to try to save his go private consideration.

Shorts should be extremely thankful to Musk for saving their butts, and then they should cover while they can.

Do you mean the stock price was about to rise due to Q3Q4 and other Model 3 successes? It wasn't rising very quickly when he made the tweet.

 

[theschnell]

Do you mean the stock price was about to rise due to Q3Q4 and other Model 3 successes? It wasn't rising very quickly when he made the tweet.

It was at like $360 or so pre-tweet, coming off a relatively recent (within months) of $260. That seems like a rising price to me...

 

[Ulmo]

It’s a new era when bulls ASK FOR price manipulation...

That doesn't make sense. Buying stocks away from shorts is not manipulation.

And, as has been hashed (sorry) over over and over over the past month+, some would be forced to sell if taken private. For varying reasons, but still. THAT was the absolute hurdle that stopped the privatisation. Did you happen to miss that?

Myself, I'd manage. I think and hope. Others maybe not. Elon listened and folded out of compassion with them.

That may have been a convenient excuse to cover up for other things. What was really discussed at the board meetings and between the board members?

 

[theschnell]

I tweeted the following to Elon in support of his intentions to keep all investors informed. Those who feel similarly might should do the same.

@elonmusk Thanks for looking out for small investors by keeping us informed, rather than talking to all the big investors first and leaving us in the dark until the last minute. TSLA @tesla

 

[Fact Checking]

Shortville Times: SEC retains Michael Cohen as lead counsel in lawsuit against Elon Musk

Michael Cohen, well-known lawyer with decades of business connections to Russian interests, has been retained by the SEC as lead counsel in their lawsuit against Elon Musk.

"We are pleased to announce that Michael Cohen, former personal attorney of Donald Trump, has agreed to take lead of the lawsuit against Elon Musk" the SEC said in a press conference. "He brings decades of experience of shady legal tactics and questionable ethics, making him the perfect match to the SEC's enforcement action", Stephanie Avakian, co-director of the SEC's division of enforcement, said during a press conference.

Yesterday, in a widely mocked legal filing, the SEC uncritically adopted arguments of so-called "short-sellers", who are shady investors who earn money when Tesla shareholders lose. "While short sellers are undoubtedly parasitic barnacles on the hull of Tesla living at the expense of shareholders who are operating on the thin boundary of legality here, personally I find them adorable rouge actors" said Dana Hull, widely respected expert of the automotive industry, adding that "Michael Cohen, while not the sharpest tool in the shed, is also such a cutie".

The SEC explained their decision in a statement: "The fact that Michael Cohen is now a convicted felon was an extra quality in favor of our decision to hire him, as no other attorney would be willing to take this case. Technically Michael Cohen is not disbarred yet as an attorney."

The SEC further added: "That we rushed to bring enforcement action and asked for unprecedented sanctions against Elon Musk just two trading days before Tesla releases their third quarter delivery report, which is widely expected to show large growth, was entirely intentional: we needed to get this filing on the docket before the delivery report belied a central thesis of our legal argument. We certainly cut it close but fortunately made it! Go Team Shorts, we here at the SEC are rooting for you! #$TSLAQ FTV!"

Copyright (c) 2018, The Shortville Times, Fake News Edition

 

[Ulmo]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mahatma Gandhi

We are at 3th level.

Yes, exactly. Elon being weak wasn't that great, but he's also doing what he knows for each current situation.

 

[Ulmo]

Shortville Times: SEC retains Michael Cohen as lead counsel in lawsuit against Elon Musk

Michael Cohen, well-known lawyer with decades of business connections to Russian interests, has been retained by the SEC as lead counsel in their lawsuit against Elon Musk.

"We are pleased to announce that Michael Cohen, former personal attorney of Donald Trump, has agreed to take lead of the lawsuit against Elon Musk" the SEC said in a press conference. "He brings decades of experience of shady legal tactics and questionable ethics, making him the perfect match to the SEC's enforcement against Elon Musk" Stephanie Avakian, co-director of the SEC's division of enforcement, said during the press conference.

Yesterday, in a widely mocked legal filing, the SEC uncritically adopted arguments of so-called "short-sellers", who are shady investors who earn money when Tesla shareholders lose. "While short sellers are undoubtedly parasitic barnacles on the hull of Tesla living at the expense of shareholders who are operating on the thin boundary of legality here, personally I find them adorable rouge actors" said Dana Hull, widely respected expert of the automotive industry, adding that "Michael Cohen, while not the sharpest tool in the shed, is also such a cutie".

The SEC explained their decision in a statement: "The fact that Michael Cohen is now a convicted felon was an extra quality in favor of our decision to hire him, as no other attorney would be willing to take this case. Technically Michael Cohen is not disbarred yet as an attorney."

The SEC further added: "That we rushed to bring enforcement action and asked for unprecedented sanctions against Elon Musk just two trading days before Tesla releases their third quarter delivery report, which is widely expected to show large growth, was entirely intentional: we needed to get this filing on the docket before the delivery report belied a central thesis of our legal argument. We certainly cut it close but fortunately made it! Go Team Shorts, we here at the SEC are rooting for you! #$TSLAQ FTV!"

Copyright (c) 2018, The Shortville Times, Fake News Edition

You got that from The Onion, right?

 

[Cobbler]

I hate to say it, but Mark Spiegel called Elon's bluff when the stock was at $380 and increased his short position.
The man has balls of steel for making that move. And he's on the winning side now

 

[ggr]

Message deleted. Under the gloat goat rule I just invented. Will also apply to mocking of shorts. I'm working backward because we were on the local roads with the new M3. So please bear with me. GGR would be better.

Semi-mod: @ggr is also traveling and about to pick up performance M3. Will do what I can to enforce the anti-gloating rule.

 

[theschnell]

I hate to say it, but Mark Spiegel called Elon's bluff when the stock was at $380 and increased his short position.
The man has balls of steel for making that move. And he's on the winning side now

Again, Musk saved him from the pain that was headed straight at him. He got lucky