TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[EVNow]

Don't be ridiculous, of course it was not taunting. Gandhi's aims were nonviolent protest and influence of popular opinion, not provocation.

I don't think EM aims to provocate SEC either. He wants justice, as he sees it.

But SEC may take it as provocative just as Gandhi's Dandi March and even hunger strikes were taken to be.

 

[phil0909]

you mean like what you do on here?

Me? I'm Ghandi, wouldn't hurt a fly!

 

[sundaymorning]

I don't think this is the case. Its not like a solid Q3 EC is going to cause all the shorts to shrug their shoulders and go home--a solid qtr is only going to cause them to redouble their efforts. Regardless of what Elon tweets or doesn't tweet, the FUD machine is going to be on over-drive. Media coverage is the same way--they are currently addicted to the Tesla is doomed storyline--look at the treatment of the delivery numbers this week--they were mostly ignored or mis-reported.

This idea that things will get better if Elon is better behaved is a fantasy. He is Tesla's best weapon and trying to neuter him is playing into the hands of Tesla's detractors.

He can show hubris once Tesla posts a profit. Luv2b’s data is looking really good right now and i suspect Elon knows it. Shorts won’t go away entirely once 3rd Q earnings show a nice profit, but quarter 4 is also right around the corner and that is one massively good looking quarter based on whats happening at Tesla right now.

 

[EVNow]

Really? I thought I was only saying: "I think your stock is currently overpriced." I had no idea I was actually a cartoon villain!

If you think something is overvalued, you don't buy it. Just like an item at your supermarket. You don't try to sell it (without having it) to all shoppers for low price in the hope that action will make the shop reduce price.

 

[M3Rider]

@TrendTrader007 is that you? Speak to us.

He might not be in the speaking mood. I'm down too, prob. $150k(I don't check lately) of life savings and I don't play options, just went in "private" all the way... This is on paper so far, not realized, so being in TT007 shoes must feel terrible.

I guess our lesson is that Elon does not consider anybody LONG, unless you're in for 10+ years, so in his opinion what he says today only affects short term; and anybody who's trading short term, especially options are not his supporters, but simple speculators. Therefore, they are dispensable. I think he doesn't realize that many of us do both - have long term investments we're not planning to touch any time soon, but also short term play money that we considered relatively safe from folding (with company doing progressively better) and being available to pull out if needed... when the play money quickly disappears due to odd tweets, the confidence level is also shaken.

 

[dmckinstry]

If you’re talking about TT007, from what I’ve seen, he plays options a lot and has lost a ton from that. Holding out doesn’t help much when your calls expire worthless.

Yep. But TT007 doesn't whine about losses. Again, you shouldn't be using options, especially short term unless you are very well heeled or incredibly confident.

 

[brian45011]

No, once they imitate a position they will still slander. What we need to do is pull together articles that were demonstrably untrue. And have the SEC go after those people. It’s already illegal to slander... the SEC just needs a list spoon fed to them. I’ll start a post after.

Slander/libel/calumny isn't in the SEC bailiwick. Use the civil court system for meritorious claims.

 

[Gifford 3]

Short won't go away even Tesla shows profits in q3, q4. Short will go away when only Tesla no longer able to trade publicly as a listed company.

 

[dmckinstry]

I wouldn't like him to get out entirely, but 3 to 6 months of vacation would be okay with me.

Let me add. Take a vacation from the duties. Not the title.

 

[RobStark]

Musk needs a safer hobby than Twitter. Fire juggling? Cage fighting? Solo hot air balloon trips?

Billionaire MMA?

 

[phil0909]

If you think something is overvalued, you don't buy it. Just like an item at your supermarket. You don't try to sell it (without having it) to all shoppers for low price in the hope that action will make the shop reduce price.

You're not getting it. I do NOT hope my action will make the market reduce the price. I simply expect the combined wisdom of the market will eventually reduce the price, regardless of my modest investment. Same as I expect the market will increase the price, when I am long.

 

[EVNow]

You're not getting it. I do NOT hope my action will make the market reduce the price. I simply expect the combined wisdom of the market will eventually reduce the price, regardless of my modest investment. Same as I expect the market will increase the price, when I am long.

Well, I could say the same thing to you.

Its one thing to speculate where the price would be (use options) - another to actively reduce the price (may be because you have a lot of options).

Its like public polling. Polling to figure out where the public is - is fine. But if the poll results themselves start affecting the opinion ? What if knowing that the results will affect the opinion, some pollsters start fudging the numbers. That's what shorts are doing. Shorts create nothing of value to society - they are just vultures trying to make money off of others labor.

At some point, all this becomes a game. How this affects tens of thousands of workers that a company supports becomes secondary. Like Enron traders were doing.

 

[dmckinstry]

I thought he was a young guy, isn't he? If he's really lost 30 years' savings, I hope he's counting from age 2, rather than age 22...

52 is young. For some of us 52 sounds very young.

 

[RobStark]

Why does he tweet without giving context of his thinking? It’s so frustrating. Just leaves us here to guess and hope for the best. Last time that didn’t work out so well....

Cuz that would legal liability.

Leaving things vague gives him plausible deniability.

 

[beachbum77]

Short won't go away even Tesla shows profits in q3, q4. Short will go away when only Tesla no longer able to trade publicly as a listed company.

Shorts may go away when Tesla has sustained profits year after year. But you may be right since Apple still has short sellers too.

 

[phil0909]

52 is young. For some of us 52 sounds very young.

Perhaps, but I'm sure it feels older if your life savings are suddenly gone. I hope he was exaggerating about that.

 

[phil0909]

Well, I could say the same thing to you.

Its one thing to speculate where the price would be (use options) - another to actively reduce the price (may be because you have a lot of options).

Its like public polling. Polling to figure out where the public is - is fine. But if the poll results themselves start affecting the opinion ? What if knowing that the results will affect the opinion, some pollsters start fudging the numbers. That's what shorts are doing. Shorts create nothing of value to society - they are just vultures trying to make money off of others labor.

At some point, all this becomes a game. How this affects tens of thousands of workers that a company supports becomes secondary. Like Enron traders were doing.

This probably futile, but...

How are longs any different? If I buy a share of Apple tomorrow and go long, my bid will have some microscopic effect on the share price (or "opinion"), I will have contributed nothing of value to the Company, and I will absolutely be trying to make money off the labor of others. Aren't we all really playing the same game? How can I be good when I'm long, and evil when I'm short?

 

[M3Rider]

You're not getting it. I do NOT hope my action will make the market reduce the price. I simply expect the combined wisdom of the market will eventually reduce the price, regardless of my modest investment. Same as I expect the market will increase the price, when I am long.

Problem is, when we see coordinated attacks, like a big sell, then a piece of FUD in the media that makes the price go down, this is an active price manipulation, not just sitting and waiting for a combined wisdom. Once you become interested in the price going down, then some people also take action to help it go that way. To the best of their abilities - whether coordinating FUD in the media or just badmouthing the company in various social media, calling Elon fraud and con etc. How are we to believe that shorts in general are "good" and all the massive manipulation we see including MMDs and dumps of large chunks of stock to push the price down are just a small handful of bad apples not representative of overall "good" shorts?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This probably futile, but...

How are longs any different? If I buy a share of Apple tomorrow and go long, my bid will have some microscopic effect on the share price (or "opinion"), I will have contributed nothing of value to the Company, and I will absolutely be trying to make money off the labor of others. Aren't we all really playing the same game? How can I be good when I'm long, and evil when I'm short?

Shorts are to finance as attack ads are to politics.

 

[oneday]

Shorts may go away when Tesla has sustained profits year after year. But you may be right since Apple still has short sellers too.

3% of market cap vs 20% of market cap. I know which one would have more effect and which one I’d prefer.