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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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It appears Mush has replaced or added to that lawyer with a litigation expert now. I hope this isn’t Elon just looking for a lawyer that’ll tell him it’s smart to fight.

He may not be looking for someone to fight, it may be a necessity. I fear an unfortunate gloves off with this move, not because he regrets his settlement decision again for a second time, but because all parties are fatigued and going full on now. I also worry about the leaking Board beginning to fracture for many obvious reasons. The SEC is likely tightening the vice grip around their heads as well.

I remain an admirable fan of the Company, long in an irrevocable trust and an undeniable lover of the products, and this all survives regardless of where we are headed.
 
I take it that Elon had some intel that SEC is going after Tesla for having to optimistic Model 3 production targets back in 2017. Probably he was just so fed up with them with attacking Tesla again. Especially given that SEC claims that "investors" got hurt by these events, when in fact SEC clearly has hurt investors more and only seem to want to protect short-sellers.


Thats unbelievable - all what I can say is that its indeed like the SEC works in favor for the shorts now.

(...) the Elon Musk legal team. What they’re telling us is that the SEC does continue to investigate Tesla. (...) there’s an existing investigation that could take a bit longer. It involves Tesla and Elon Musk’s stated production goals for the Model 3 largely, and profitability; if those things match up to reality, and whether there’s a fraud case by saying ‘Hey, we’re gonna reach profitability, for example.'”

“The case focuses again on targets that Musk made and some of the other corporate executives as well, about when the Model 3 was gonna come out, how many were gonna be produced, and profitability. When Tesla was gonna be profitable. Remember, these goals have changed along the way. He’s now saying the third quarter should be profitable. (...)"

Elon Musk's Twitter tirade comes amid SEC probe on Tesla's Model 3 production ramp

That could be a main reason for the SP drop we have seen Friday.

I really do not get what the SEC is doing here but it is not in favor of investors for sure..... Since a while Tesla made clear and confirmed that they intend to get profitable in Q3 +4 and every following quarter and now the SEC claims it was an by intent false statement to mislead the investors and they make that claim a few weeks before the official Q3 ER is released where profitability is expected ???

They could look at the numbers first and decide than if they want to investigate. In any case how likely is it that they find as Email where an intend to fraud is written down? The same is true for production numbers.

The SEC should definitely be sued for that but please not Tesla or Elon and I hope that the judge looks in to this as well and makes a balanced call.

Sounds to me like we see more bumpy roads ahead I am afraid....
 
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I'm sure its a fine car all else equal. But there is no EV mission or passion or desire to curb carbon emissions from GM. Therefore, I would never support this company. Plus, I can't think of a car company that has made worse cars over the past few decades.

A bit off topic... I used to love GM. This is my '63 Buick LeSabre, had it for 40 yrs, rebuilt it mostly myself. I finally drove it last night but its been sitting ever since I got the Tesla in April and I used to drive it every weekend. It's a head turner, but Tesla keeps winning the pick because of safety, but also fun and quick. Ya, I had to install seat belts, remember when those were deemed unnecessary? So what was their mission right? Hasn't changed, money no surprise.

I might actually sell this thing. I can't support both in my head and I can't justify a space for just a show car. It burns oil, it drips oil, and it's so slow! Scares me to drive it now. No right mirror either, not necessary right? As if the Murano was a dog, this thing screams of oil. It's not the Bob Hope days anymore.

If Tesla were to offer me another Tesla in exchange for a video of crushing this one, I'd do it.



20160510_123255.jpg
 
This is flat out delusional. Is this the best staff that the short sellers can hire? they must be hurting bad.

Actually, I'm getting very concerned about Tesla's inventory problem. My data suggests that they've got about 60 days of unsold inventory sitting in lots across the US. It's a massive financial burden and potential liability that's reflective of a company en route to the dustbin of history.

Oh wait, did I say Tesla? I meant Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, VW, and pretty much every non-Tesla automaker in the world. Tesla's unsold inventory is two weeks worth. ;)
 
What kind of government agency demands to limit free speech or criticism. Is this USA or Gilead. Why should a person be able to speak out about a fine they were given? The sec demanding silence and limiting any criticism does not deserve our respect. What are they hiding? We should crowd source some background investigations of these people.
 
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They are trying to lower their unemployment rate, in the high teens now. So I think SA wants to diversify and bring in companies that will bring jobs.
I think SA would be fine, you're overstating the risks. Yes human rights issues, but that's just how it is. things like gigafactory can be used as catalysts for positive change in their society, imho
KSA has a lot of issues - and they do want to diversify & modernize. It would be fine to have GF and other factories in KSA - after all its not like China is a civil rights heaven.
 
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Thats unbelievable - all what I can say is that its indeed like the SEC works in favor for the shorts now.

(...) the Elon Musk legal team. What they’re telling us is that the SEC does continue to investigate Tesla. (...) there’s an existing investigation that could take a bit longer. It involves Tesla and Elon Musk’s stated production goals for the Model 3 largely, and profitability; if those things match up to reality, and whether there’s a fraud case by saying ‘Hey, we’re gonna reach profitability, for example.'”

“The case focuses again on targets that Musk made and some of the other corporate executives as well, about when the Model 3 was gonna come out, how many were gonna be produced, and profitability. When Tesla was gonna be profitable. Remember, these goals have changed along the way. He’s now saying the third quarter should be profitable. (...)"

Elon Musk's Twitter tirade comes amid SEC probe on Tesla's Model 3 production ramp

That could be a main reason for the SP drop we have seen Friday.

I really do not get what the SEC is doing here but it is not in favor of investors for sure..... Since a while Tesla made clear and confirmed that they intend to get profitable in Q3 +4 and every following quarter and now the SEC claims it was an by intent false statement to mislead the investors and they make that claim a few weeks before the official Q3 ER is released where profitability is expected ???

They could look at the numbers first and decide than if they want to investigate. In any case how likely is it that they find as Email where an intend to fraud is written down? The same is true for production numbers.

The SEC should definitely be sued for that and I hope that the judge looks in to this as well and makes a balanced call.

Sounds to me like we see more bumpy roads ahead I am afraid....

i thought the production ramp “investigation” was already over and cleared about statements made in 2016-2017???

is this just old recycled BS?
 
I'm sure its a fine car all else equal. But there is no EV mission or passion or desire to curb carbon emissions from GM. Therefore, I would never support this company. Plus, I can't think of a car company that has made worse cars over the past few decades.

Reminder: GM is a member of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which - while running a pro-EV public face - has been extensively campaigning behind the scenes to weaken EPA pollution standards and kill off the CARB ZEV mandate.
 
You are so delusional.
YOU are delusional. (I'll be nice and retract that slightly; you have been deluded, like all of us to varying degrees over time and in different amounts according to each individual at each moment, by professional deluders.)
Try sending a *female* member of your family to Saudi Arabia and afterwards, try saying with a straight face that they don't have human rights issues.
Females are already gaining a lot of new rights in KSA that they didn't have before. It's some of the pro-Iran-1979-to-current-governership politicians that treat females much much worse that KSA is fighting; KSA is on the side of freeing women from such slavery and oppression.

USA also has human rights issues: a slave class called Illegal Aliens; white males being discriminated against at all levels; pro-racism politicians from the infiltrated and destroyed destructionist Democrat party fomenting race wars ever since 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and continuing even today; foreign opiates being brought in to kill our citizens, with complicit local pro-Communist pro-drug-dealing black market activists; massive income redistribution from good people to murderers, thieves, and awful people; the lists go on and on and on.
Saudi Arabia has massive, massive, massive human rights issues
That is a pure lie; likely you're just parroting others.
and everyone except you knows it.
False; I have updated information, and a minimum of ten thousand USA citizens know the updated information, and quite likely more than 50,000 USA citizens have the updated information.
They have been bad guys for most of their history,
That is an oversimplification which begets comparisons that are a bit illogical, like "So has USA!", and such things.
being founded by a warlord who took concubines as prizes.
So did USA. (See that example of my prior point?) But regardless of its founding, which we can chatter about for hours, the question is not what it was founded as, but what it has done recently. At present, even using the moral equivilency of comparing USA to KSA, KSA has been very morally good for far longer than USA; USA has been good since the election and swearing in of POTUS Donald Trump in 2017, and KSA has been good since before 2006; they have us squarely beat in that arena. USA was downright evil in terms of international human rights during the Obama admin. The atrocities committed in our name are bewildering.

Maybe they'll become civilized soon,
They're on their way more than we are
but right now they're destroying archaeological sites
I'd like to know more information about that; that sounds like (1) finger pointing without knowing what to point at, and finding some bones and saying "hey you're killing dead people!" and (2) a pretty weak attempt at blaming someone for something
and bombing civilians from aircraft
COMPLETE FALSE LIE; the OPPOSITE is the truth.
while imprisoning bloggers for heresy.
That might be true, but one of their major problems is Communist infiltration from Iran, China, and whatever Russia is called now; that is a worldwide problem. KSA has just been much more active and responsible about stopping that type of activity.
Most of the population can't vote and doesn't have citizenship.
I believe you're talking about foreign workers, which KSA is actively in the process of having leave the country now. KSA can run their country how they see fit; mob rule is hardly a great measuring stick for human rights morality, so "Demokracy" is hardly a rallying cry (thank god McCain is dead now).

they *advertise* that they're doing this stuff.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but I do concede that there is a measure of false information coming from that region so that they can work under cover of misapprehension by their enemies, but they may be just be working under the false information being spread about them by their enemies.
Maybe the current crown prince will change things, maybe not
We're on the same page there.
but right now,
I disagree: you have the same mentality that the prior Baby Boomer generation in USA had: place someone in a bottle, change the goal posts so they're never allowed out, and by no means let them improve or succeed or get better in any way, and use that false goal post as a way to say "see? you aren't allowed to get better", holding them down.
they have massive issues.
Everyone does. Otherwise, why be alive?
They've gotten away with it because of oil.
That used to be a major reason for much overlooking of evil by many bad people from around there, and bouyed up by UK and USA along the way. It's part of why the evil of 1979 caused so much trouble, but that's not directly KSA's fault as far as I know, and that has been the source of most the region's evil. I concede that oil not being forever might be, even is, one of, if not KSA's major reason for getting better, but they started getting better decades ago, and have been improving ever since.

I recently decided to read the history of their half dozen Kings since their "founding", as you so put it, and in the last century, they have had a number of different Kings with different policies, similar to how USA has had a number of different Administrations and Congresses that have had a number of different policies, and in both cases, some better than others (and the corrolary, some worse than others). Their recent improvements have been multigenerational, multidecade, and one-directioned: improvement. That's a very good score in my book, and I estimate that they are already far improved compared to what your view of them is.
 
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I think developments since Elon pulled the plug on the go private effort make it more clear than ever that Tesla is better off as a private company.

I think Elon should reconsider and take Tesla private. This time, line up investors behind the scenes and avoid the drama of the last go-round. Don't want to derail this thread, so created a new one if anyone wants to chime in:

Dear Elon: Please reconsider and take Tesla private
Could we please settle all the lawsuits from the last one before everyone's getting all juiced up to go at it again. Some of us have nerve's that need a little rest. :confused:
 
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I think @factchecking alluded to autos being hit particularly hard by market downturns. Perhaps puts on Ford? I dont have quite the understanding id like to have of all the facts but it seems that Ford is particularly susceptible. Their best sellers being gas guzzlers that are securitized as subprime loans. Sitting on billions of legacy hardware that might not be worth much.

I see it as a valid strategy and did it myself (a Jan 2021, partially under the logic that a Democratic president may well plan to resume the 2025 fuel economy standards, hitting Ford especially hard), but got out of it for a profit to invest more in AMD.

Also, unrelated to that or your post... I didn't think I'd be adding a long to my ignore list, but apparently today is the day for that...
 
Elon is doing two things:

Playing 4D Chess with short sellers. He’s creating a huge bear trap and will soon announce good news. You guys seriously think he is dumb? BOD is laughing with him.

Free and effective advertisement. He’s drawing so much free publicity, so many new memes, younger generation think he’s a badass, etc. Shortseller Enrichment Committee... cmon, that’s gold. And the new Tesla referral program... lmao.

I’ve never laughed so hard while losing so much money. Watch the epic squeeze people.
It's unfortunate how people think Elon is playing 4d chess. He doesn't seem very smart. Maybe engineering smart, but he's not wise with people, etc.
It's obviously not bad. The trucks wouldn't be there at all if there was nothing to do. The truck drivers want to make money too and they wouldn't be wasting their time at an empty factory.
Some of this is perfectly normal for trucking operations. I was a semi truck dispatcher for a large transportation company. They have very tight legal requirements for being on duty/off duty and for rest so sometimes our drivers literally have to stop and park and try to sleep for 8 hrs etc. In our operation it was all electronic logs and GPS controlled mostly too so the truck literally could not be moved an inch. If you were in a customer parking waiting lot and ran out of time, the truck would have to stay in that spot or risk a logbook violation. So trucks are probably either waiting for loads or out of time and waiting to "recoup their driving hours" by resting. Long TSLA via call options and stock*
 
Oh wait, did I say Tesla? I meant Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, VW, and pretty much every non-Tesla automaker in the world. Tesla's unsold inventory is two weeks worth. ;)

For the Model 3 it's even better than that: at the end of Q3 Tesla's Model 3 inventory was less than 3 days of production at 4.1k/week:

model-3-3q18-jpg.340346


I.e. Tesla only had 1,985 Model 3's on inventory at the end of 3Q2018, and that included showroom cars, test-drive cars and any residual inventory in transit.

Those are incredibly low inventory levels, and it's because Tesla's are already sold before they are made, and because of the very effective delivery push at the end of Q3.
 
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Mod
YOU are delusional. (I'll be nice and retract that slightly; you have been deluded, like all of us to varying degrees over time and in different amounts according to each individual at each moment, by professional deluders.)Females are already gaining a lot of new rights in KSA that they didn't have before. It's some of the pro-Iran-1979-to-current-governership politicians that treat females much much worse that KSA is fighting; KSA is on the side of freeing women from such slavery and oppression.

USA also has human rights issues: a slave class called Illegal Aliens; white males being discriminated against at all levels; pro-racism politicians from the infiltrated and destroyed destructionist Democrat party fomenting race wars ever since 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and continuing even today; foreign opiates being brought in to kill our citizens, with complicit local pro-Communist pro-drug-dealing black market activists; massive income redistribution from good people to murderers, thieves, and awful people; the lists go on and on and on.That is a pure lie; likely you're just parroting others.False; I have updated information, and a minimum of ten thousand USA citizens know the updated information, and quite likely more than 50,000 USA citizens have the updated information.That is an oversimplification which begets comparisons that are a bit illogical, like "So has USA!", and such things.So did USA. (See that example of my prior point?) But regardless of its founding, which we can chatter about for hours, the question is not what it was founded as, but what it has done recently. At present, even using the moral equivilency of comparing USA to KSA, KSA has been very morally good for far longer than USA; USA has been good since the election and swearing in of POTUS Donald Trump in 2017, and KSA has been good since before 2006; they have us squarely beat in that arena. USA was downright evil in terms of international human rights during the Obama admin. The atrocities committed in our name are bewildering.

They're on their way more than we areI'd like to know more information about that; that sounds like (1) finger pointing without knowing what to point at, and finding some bones and saying "hey you're killing dead people!" and (2) a pretty weak attempt at blaming someone for somethingCOMPLETE FALSE LIE; the OPPOSITE is the truth.That might be true, but one of their major problems is Communist infiltration from Iran, China, and whatever Russia is called now; that is a worldwide problem. KSA has just been much more active and responsible about stopping that type of activity.I believe you're talking about foreign workers, which KSA is actively in the process of having leave the country now. KSA can run their country how they see fit; mob rule is hardly a great measuring stick for human rights morality, so "Demokracy" is hardly a rallying cry (thank god McCain is dead now).

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but I do concede that there is a measure of false information coming from that region so that they can work under cover of misapprehension by their enemies, but they may be just be working under the false information being spread about them by their enemies.We're on the same page there.I disagree: you have the same mentality that the prior Baby Boomer generation in USA had: place someone in a bottle, change the goal posts so they're never allowed out, and by no means let them improve or succeed or get better in any way, and use that false goal post as a way to say "see? you aren't allowed to get better", holding them down.Everyone does. Otherwise, why be alive?That used to be the reason. I concede that oil not being forever might be, even is, one of, if not their major reason for getting better, but they started getting better decades ago, and have been improving ever since.

I recently decided to read the history of their half dozen Kings since their "founding", as you so put it, and in the last century, they have had a number of different Kings with different policies, similar to how USA has had a number of different Administrations and Congresses that have had a number of different policies, and in both cases, some better than others (and the corrolary, some worse than others). Their recent improvements have been multigenerational, multidecade, and one-directioned: improvement. That's a very good score in my book, and I estimate that they are already far improved compared to what your view of them is.
Mods can we move this to Market politics...and Ulmo what in the world are you smoking?
 
Unclear how a Gigafactory in SA would work. Where would the employees come from? Something like 80% of SA’s labor force is brought in from other countries.
A gigantic solar/battery farm, fine maybe, but a Gigafactory?

The labor issues, the human rights issues, the fact that SA is at war with neighboring Yemen, the fact that the geopolitical situation in the Middle East is historically unstable... all these issues combined suggest you don’t put an asset like a *Gigafactory* in the middle of one of the world’s oldest hot spots. A Gigafactory in SA is just asking for trouble imho.

More like 53% of labor force is foreign.
https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com...abor Market Report 2016 - Final - Low res.pdf

That is a good thing. It means Tesla would be able to import talent into SA.

There is zero chance of Yemen militias invading Neom or any place Tesla would place the GF.

The Middle East is a high risk area to do business. Israel and Dubai have been doing fine for quite a while.

Tying Tesla to a degree to the House of Saud is a risk.

But business is a risk.

Decarbonizing the global economy means decarbonizing the Middle Eastern economy too.

Plus, if the funding is Saudi then that is less of a risk and not taking a GF away from a more politically stable area.

BTW I read a while back the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan is 100% behind solar power. They are 100% against the Jordanian government's plan to build a natural gas pipeline to Israel and buy Israeli gas.
 
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