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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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I think developments since Elon pulled the plug on the go private effort make it more clear than ever that Tesla is better off as a private company.

I think Elon should reconsider and take Tesla private. This time, line up investors behind the scenes and avoid the drama of the last go-round. Don't want to derail this thread, so created a new one if anyone wants to chime in:

Dear Elon: Please reconsider and take Tesla private
 
It seems that Elon's behavior has been very polarizing of late, and the younger generation doesn't seem to be bothered by it as much as others. We are in our 40s and have found Elon's behavior of late unfortunate.
I find that the Bolt has very comfortable seats and is very ergonomic And of course it's all-electric, with all the nice driving features which that has. Only downside is no Superchargers so no road trips, but I'd absolutely get it as a second/city car. Was seriously considering doing so...

... but GM refuses to supply enough Bolts to my local dealer, who has a waiting list !!!! (And of course I can't really drive it from a faraway dealer, because no Superchargers.)
I'm sure its a fine car all else equal. But there is no EV mission or passion or desire to curb carbon emissions from GM. Therefore, I would never support this company. Plus, I can't think of a car company that has made worse cars over the past few decades.
 
I have nothing against electric cars.... The idea (and a few attempts) has been around for well over 100 years...
I'm sure Audi, Jag, MB, and Porsche will all do fine... The Leaf is also very nice, particularly at 1/2 the price of an M3....

I ~am~ against poorly run companies, sucking up taxpayer dollars to stay viable, just to support a drugged-up CEO, that happens to commute to work in a friggin 7-gallon-a-MINUTE-jet-fuel-burn G650, that tells me he's going to save the planet.... HAHAHAHAHA
What. A. Joke....

And FTR, I've never invested in GM...

Oh, how cute! A new little troll has arrived! Funny how that always seems to happen in conjunction with stock dips....

Welcome! Can I get you some punch while you're here, or a cookie?

(PS You need to come up with some new material, we've heard this stuff so much and for so long it's become rather, um, dull. So at least work hard enough to come up with some new material while you're here...;))
 
He tried this. Went and hired Mark Cubans lawyer, one of the only ones to ever beat the SEC. the lawyer advised him to settle even going as far as requesting Cuban to call Musk directly to get his head out his ass.

It appears Mush has replaced or added to that lawyer with a litigation expert now. I hope this isn’t Elon just looking for a lawyer that’ll tell him it’s smart to fight.

I don’t want him to fight neither, please take the high road and move on, Elon. Please focus on the mission and focus on your company/shareholders. We’ve been dragged through the mud for too long, by too many, this is one of those unnecessary battle since a settlement is on the table. Our focus should be solely on Model 3, making customers happy, expanding our brand. Please take into the consideration that battling the sec would just be a distraction not only to you, but also to those around you, those who admire you, and those who invest in you and your company. As other posters have stated, one day when Tesla dominates the auto industry, you can use all that money and divert it to changing legislation to ban shorting stocks. That would grant you and all of us the highest satisfaction, and we would support you in doing so. Please keep focus and don’t get baited into these sorts of distractions. Please bite the bullet, and take one for the team.
 
At this point I don't care.

I just want Musk to stop making childish tweets, and I want *Tesla* to be in the clear with the SEC. What Musk decides to do with the SEC case is his problem, but I think it should be clear that Tesla as a company had nothing to do with Musk's tweets (I think Musk made that clear).
Oh come on. How can Elon's action has no effect on Tesla. And removing him would be a really ugly fight.
 
We are about 2 years away from the crisis. Probably 12-18 months away from reaching the top, then trade sideways, then crash.
People have been saying this for a couple of years. As the joke goes, economists have predicted 10 out of last 6 recessions.

That doesn't mean we won't have a downturn. Given raising oil prices, trade war prospects - and the ever present possibility of Trump doing something *really* bad to distract from all his tax cheating (and Mueller investigation).

The market has basically ignored political instability till now - because they got some tax cut. The luck may run out at anytime.
 
[ On a side note . . . .

Could the proprietors who run this web conferencing software please fix it so that when people share Bloomberg links, they don't show up as "Terms of Service Violation" or "Are you a robot"? Please? Pretty please?

Thank you. ]
Or learn to use the [ url ] tag. Like so (you must drop the inner spaces between the square brackets]:

[ url=https://...url-goes-here ]...Your chosen text here will show as the link text...[ /url ]

This is a Bloomberg link:

Musk Hires Williams & Connolly Chairman Dane Butswinkas in SEC Case
 
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Unclear how a Gigafactory in SA would work. Where would the employees come from? Something like 80% of SA’s labor force is brought in from other countries.
A gigantic solar/battery farm, fine maybe, but a Gigafactory?

The labor issues, the human rights issues, the fact that SA is at war with neighboring Yemen, the fact that the geopolitical situation in the Middle East is historically unstable... all these issues combined suggest you don’t put an asset like a *Gigafactory* in the middle of one of the world’s oldest hot spots. A Gigafactory in SA is just asking for trouble imho.
They are trying to lower their unemployment rate, in the high teens now. So I think SA wants to diversify and bring in companies that will bring jobs.
I think SA would be fine, you're overstating the risks. Yes human rights issues, but that's just how it is. things like gigafactory can be used as catalysts for positive change in their society, imho
 
I don’t want him to fight neither, please take the high road and move on, Elon. Please focus on the mission and focus on your company/shareholders. We’ve been dragged through the mud for too long, by too many, this is one of those unnecessary battle since a settlement is on the table. Our focus should be solely on Model 3, making customers happy, expanding our brand. Please take into the consideration that battling the sec would just be a distraction not only to you, but also to those around you, those who admire you, and those who invest in you and your company. As other posters have stated, one day when Tesla dominates the auto industry, you can use all that money and divert it to changing legislation to ban shorting stocks. That would grant you and all of us the highest satisfaction, and we would support you in doing so. Please keep focus and don’t get baited into these sorts of distractions. Please bite the bullet, and take one for the team.
I agree and I think lots of people agree too, including Ross Gerber on Twitter. How can we get organized and plead to Elon?
 
I have nothing against electric cars.... The idea (and a few attempts) has been around for well over 100 years...
I'm sure Audi, Jag, MB, and Porsche will all do fine... The Leaf is also very nice, particularly at 1/2 the price of an M3....

I ~am~ against poorly run companies, sucking up taxpayer dollars to stay viable, just to support a drugged-up CEO, that happens to commute to work in a friggin 7-gallon-a-MINUTE-jet-fuel-burn G650, that tells me he's going to save the planet.... HAHAHAHAHA
What. A. Joke....

And FTR, I've never invested in GM...
So your objective here on a Tesla Enthusiast forum is to disparage the company so that those enthusiasts know how you feel?
 
His analysis is mostly fine. (The more I look at the book, the more I like it, actually. I know a lot of the stuff in there, but not all the details, and it's been put together very well. He has a few spots I disagree on, of course, but it's good work.)

What I'd say here is: basically, the cleantech investments -- putting solar on people's roofs and batteries in people's houses and EVs in people's driveways -- are still in the "Early Part of the Cycle" and haven't even reached the "Bubble" phase yet.

We're still in the phase where companies are scrambling to borrow money to switch to EV trucks, and agencies are scrambling to borrow money to switch to EV buses, *because the financial payback is so good*. In fact, we've only just arrived at this phase, after getting out of the "early adopter willing to pay extra for new tech" phase. As people and companies cut their costs by switching to renewables, their (unchanged!) income can cover the debts they incur to switch to renewables, plus more. While this is going on, you don't get a debt blowup.

And the hiring due to the Great Energy Transition means that you have more people with income. And pressure to raise wages, which is something which is actually happening. This heralds *inflation*, not recession.

There can be mini-bubbles which pop during this phase (such as the yieldco boom/bust or the overleveraged business model of SolarCity) but they don't translate to full economic recessions. When we start approaching 50% cleantech adoption rates, then we start having high chances of a bubble and a pop, IMO. (Norway's already there with electric cars -- wonder if we'll see something happen there.)

Dalio discusses the 1923-1927 economic boom, a tech boom driven by real improvements such as motorcars and automation. *That* is where we are standing right now: we're in 1923, economically.

----
Dalio's main weakness in his book is failure to analyze the 19th century extensively; he doesn't have a good Industrial Revolution analysis.

On the other hand, he's dead right about the risk of war, in the War Economies section. The rise of dumbass authoritarian leaders, the rising conflict between the mistreated poor/middle-class masses and the economic aristocracy, it's a recipe for destructive wars. I'd *really* like to avoid this but basically the only way out of it is for supporters of wealth redistribution and/or power redistribution to win (as FDR did, as Wilson did, as Lord Grey did in the UK in 1830). The renewables revolution *may* help this happen or it may not.


Thank you for an (as always) amazing response. Its painfully obvious that most populist and authoritarian leaders all over the world don't care to get elected based on economics that make sense in the real world, they rather cling to pie in the sky (MAGA) type nonsense. This i feel is causing a great disconnect between central banks and their governments. The FED is currently performing quantitative tightening and trying to balance that against what Europe and Asia are doing. In the mean time congress is passing absurdly irresponsible fiscal policy. Also other factors such as trade tensions, d**k waving, real war, cyber war (currently in shadow mode), 10 year bull market, every equity trading at judiciously high multiples.

I dont know maybe im just paranoid but i feel like things are just a bit too hot for my liking. The Nasdaq Triggers Another Breadth Warning – The Felder Report

Whats worse is that im not really sure how to even hedge against these kinds of deleveragings. Gold miners are incredibly cheap now with enterprise multiples under 10x usually. Some are turning decent profits even with gold being in the doghouse. Perhaps the waning confidence in FIAT currencies will lead to higher gold prices which could make them really attractive investments during hard times.

I think @factchecking alluded to autos being hit particularly hard by market downturns. Perhaps puts on Ford? I dont have quite the understanding id like to have of all the facts but it seems that Ford is particularly susceptible. Their best sellers being gas guzzlers that are securitized as subprime loans. Sitting on billions of legacy hardware that might not be worth much.

How are people here going to handle are 50-80% correction in the overall market, when a bad week of FUD sends some into a frenzy? (Directed at no one in particular)
 
Well, I certainly agree on your last part... I'm with you...

It could be that the 420k reservations number was made-up as well...
Without ~that~ big of a number, there would have been no loan to continue the Ponzi...
420k reservations.... $420 Private funding offer.... How amazing...

And, if not, it's curious why there's so many owner-less Tesla's in lots all across the country....
The SEC and the DOJ are certainly looking at ~something~, but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough...

Judging by the amount of responses to my notes this morning, I can see I clearly opened a can of worms.. There's only so much time in the day, so this was probably a bad idea to even got down this rabbit-hole on this board... I see that now..
I wish you well, and good luck..

ok, so now we know you are just here to trash talk.
best of luck as well
 
have a new theory on the SEC joke tweet.

musk was probably flying somewhere on Thursday given that he tweeted for like 5 hours straight in the middle of a weekday. we know he hired a DC based litigation lawyer. is it possible Elon was flying to DC to meet this lawyer and in frustration with having to deal with all this in the middle of an important type for the company lashed out?

also enrichment would make sense given that this litigation lawyer might be his main counsel for all the civil suits that he will surely have to pay up for.
 
It's Interactive Brokers; I would be unsurprised if they have you sign up to lend shares out automatically, since they're IB, and they can be very *sharp operators* that way. Have you read your contract with them?

If you're with Fidelity or Schwab, the default is not-lent-out and you have to do a lot of paperwork to have fully-paid shares lent out.
Clearly not closely enough, at least with regard that part.
 
Explain what was ill advised. Because short hedges manipulated the stock down based on gossip and not actual Tesla business? As we now know the model 3 is the highest grossing car in America right now in its first year on the market.

As an example in general, 2 trillion in revenue against 3 trillion in expenses is that not that great. We are anxiously waiting to see how the chips play out. I'm betting we have 3.1 trillion in revenue against 3 trillion in expenses. I hope for all our sakes I am right.

I am a Tesla mega bull but got burnt by Elon's unnecessary tweeting.

It is much easier to control what we say/do, than to control what the shorts do.

The shorts behavior do not dictate our self destructive responses.

People seem to think the SEC is trying to build an EV and Tesla’s “got this”.

Let’s be real. The SEC is the apex predator of its domain.
 
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