TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[sunhelm]

I'm cross posting this here from the general thread for discussion.

Wow. As nauseating as it was to sit through that interview, I think everyone should view it because of its potential influence on the market. That is some scathing criticism of Elon from a couple of interviewees besides Lopez. It wasn't just Lopez, but the respected author Bethany McLean of the Enron book as well as Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, the associate Dean of the Yale School of Management. Enron and Theranos were brought up in the discussion, as analogs to what is going on with Elon and Tesla. They brought up the comparison with John Carreyrou, the author of Bad Blood, the book about the journey of exposing Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos of fraud. He was ruthlessly attacked by Holmes while investigating Theranos. Bethany directly compared Elon to the angry belligerent behavior of the Enron crooks when they were being investigated. Sonnenfeld agreed with their characterization of Elon. He cites examples of CEOs under attack who came out and just corrected the facts without personally attacking others. He was extremely critical of Elon while being very supportive of Lopez.

They characterize Lopez as a reporter under attack for just trying to get the facts out, which obviously seems to ignore the tone of her articles. Many watching the interview wouldn't know what the tone of her articles is like though. Bethany says Elon's behavior is indication that Lopez is right and that she is on the right track. She commends Lopez for her courage.

Sonnenfeld then talks about "poor Jim Chanos" being in the middle of Enron and now Tesla. He says it's unfortunate that Elon so fundamentally misunderstands Jim Chanos, who is "a very honest smart guy." "For Musk to somehow say there is some trading taking place from Chanos on this information is ludicrious." (love that choice of word!) They all then agreed with how honest and open Jim Chanos is, and that he speaks openly with all of them frequently. Sonnenfeld indicates that he agrees with Lopez that investors should be worried, and that Elon is holding Tesla's board of directors hostage, while making $2.5 billion this year. Sonnenfeld referred to Lopez as a "brilliant" reporter.

I have to say, if you don't know a lot about Tesla and Elon, this kind of stuff could easily create a lot of concern for investors. This SEC whistleblower situation is making me a little concerned about the shorter term. I sure hope that Elon is squeaky clean and hasn't knowingly exaggerated some things that could be interpreted as an intent to influence investors. I imagine that wouldn't go over well. It's one thing to be eternally optimistic about ramps and future timelines, but it's another thing to knowingly indicate something different than what is occurring in an effort to bring an embattled company through a really tough stretch. I wish I could say that I am 100% confident he has not exaggerated some numbers over this tough model 3 ramp.

I'm cross posting this here from the general thread for discussion.

Wow. As nauseating as it was to sit through that interview, I think everyone should view it because of its potential influence on the market. That is some scathing criticism of Elon from a couple of interviewees besides Lopez. It wasn't just Lopez, but the respected author Bethany McLean of the Enron book as well as Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, the associate Dean of the Yale School of Management. Enron and Theranos were brought up in the discussion, as analogs to what is going on with Elon and Tesla. They brought up the comparison with John Carreyrou, the author of Bad Blood, the book about the journey of exposing Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos of fraud. He was ruthlessly attacked by Holmes while investigating Theranos. Bethany directly compared Elon to the angry belligerent behavior of the Enron crooks when they were being investigated. Sonnenfeld agreed with their characterization of Elon. He cites examples of CEOs under attack who came out and just corrected the facts without personally attacking others. He was extremely critical of Elon while being very supportive of Lopez.

They characterize Lopez as a reporter under attack for just trying to get the facts out, which obviously seems to ignore the tone of her articles. Many watching the interview wouldn't know what the tone of her articles is like though. Bethany says Elon's behavior is indication that Lopez is right and that she is on the right track. She commends Lopez for her courage.

Sonnenfeld then talks about "poor Jim Chanos" being in the middle of Enron and now Tesla. He says it's unfortunate that Elon so fundamentally misunderstands Jim Chanos, who is "a very honest smart guy." "For Musk to somehow say there is some trading taking place from Chanos on this information is ludicrious." (love that choice of word!) They all then agreed with how honest and open Jim Chanos is, and that he speaks openly with all of them frequently. Sonnenfeld indicates that he agrees with Lopez that investors should be worried, and that Elon is holding Tesla's board of directors hostage, while making $2.5 billion this year. Sonnenfeld referred to Lopez as a "brilliant" reporter.

I have to say, if you don't know a lot about Tesla and Elon, this kind of stuff could easily create a lot of concern for investors. This SEC whistleblower situation is making me a little concerned about the shorter term. I sure hope that Elon is squeaky clean and hasn't knowingly exaggerated some things that could be interpreted as an intent to influence investors. I imagine that wouldn't go over well. It's one thing to be eternally optimistic about ramps and future timelines, but it's another thing to knowingly indicate something different than what is occurring in an effort to bring an embattled company through a really tough stretch. I wish I could say that I am 100% confident he has not exaggerated some numbers over this tough model 3 ramp.

Very well articulated. Thanks for breaking it down accurately. I still hate the smug face of Linette, perfectly b playing the part of a persecuted journo. Ugh!

 

[Boomer19]

Did Sonnenfeld disclose his conflict of interest?

James Chanos

exactly!

 

[SteveG3]

hahhah. WOW!
well...it starts, like i said yesterday...


CNBC isn’t even trying to hide the fact that this is a Chanos hit piece. Lopez, McClean (chanos’ enron mouthpiece - research articles from enron meltdown or watch documentary “Enron, the smartest guys in the room”.). and the professor from Yale haha Chanos is a Yale grad. sure there’s no connection there.

scott wapner; if you listen closely EVERY single time he talks about tesla, he freudian slips a falsehood in there. in the beginning of the video he said musk said that lopez paid trip

then they show the tweet, musk ASKED if!!!

listeners hear wapner buy they prob don’t read the tweet bc they’re looking at lopez’s humongous dumb mug. that’s misinformation.

this is laughable at best. i personally am done with cnbc. i am fuming p!ssed. the fast money crew really isn’t that bad, theyve been fair. but the rest of them are jokes. their advertising is a bunch of cheese ball ads...like hollywood reporter over there.

this is now a next level crock of shiiittteee

nobody can sit here and deny.

those that do,
give them the chance to read not only jesses post but also the divide excerpt (which is derived from court discovery documents).

it is on. now it should be crystal clear to everyone why elon must be direct to consumer on content as well as cars. to be continued.

That Yale Professor, Jeff Sonnenfeld, has had Chanos speak at his annual conference multiple times.

 

[SteveG3]

That Yale Professor, Jeff Sonnenfeld, has had Chanos speak at his annual conference multiple times.

exactly!

even clearer connection Boomer.

would like to see this info presented to Tesla/Elon and CNBC.

 

[sunhelm]

Did Sonnenfeld disclose his conflict of interest?

James Chanos

Holy crap! They belong to the same Yale school of management faculty!

 

[Boomer19]

even clearer connection Boomer.

would like to see this info presented to Tesla/Elon and CNBC.

i tweeted at wapner, cnbc, melissa lee phil lebeau (melissa phil andrew are respectable and some others. shame on the rest of cnbc)
i questioned the piece and said
#boycottCNBC


and tweeted elon too

but i only follow elon and have 0 followers myself (not because i’m unable to attain cyber friends, but because i hate social media for the most part).

but, this is the tool we have. it’s a shame.

we need the twitter guys @ValueAnalyst etc etc to help on this one.

sorry lord astinus (i kept tagging you), but i think @MacRocket is the twitter guy not you. apologies.

telling you it’s going to get much much worse.


i tweeted at fred lambert too with the link and my tweet to elon. we’ll see

 

[SteveG3]

i tweeted at wapner, cnbc, melissa lee phil lebeau (melissa phil andrew are respectable and some others. shame on the rest of cnbc)
i questioned the piece and said
#boycottCNBC


and tweeted elon too

but i only follow elon and have 0 followers myself (not because i’m unable to attain cyber friends, but because i hate social media for the most part).

but, this is the tool we have. it’s a shame.

we need the twitter guys @ValueAnalyst etc etc to help on this one.

sorry lord astinus (i kept tagging you), but i think @MacRocket is the twitter guy not you. apologies.

telling you it’s going to get much much worse.

I’ll leave likes on those tweets boomer

you know about $TSLA for people to find the tweets more easily?

 

[shootformoon]

Very well articulated. Thanks for breaking it down accurately. I still hate the smug face of Linette, perfectly b playing the part of a persecuted journo. Ugh!

I have the same impression about the smug face. At first sight I even thought she was high or something.

 

[shootformoon]

I know little about security law. Here is a hypothetical question. If somebody created some rumor and drove down the SP to gain from the market, did she/he violate certain security law? On the other hand, somebody else was forced to sell on a loss due to margin call caused by the rumor and had a substantial loss, can she sue for loss?

 

[Ugliest1]

...It's very unlikely I know as much about Tesla as a lot of people here, but U certainly know more than you're willing to gibe me credit for. We're an institutional investor (long) and I have access to our equity research.

Now I'm sorry I don't have time to read 5 years' worth of comments just to make sure I only post original and insightful information none of you have ever seen before.

I don’t think the point of you reading 5 years worth of historical posts is so that you can post original and insightful information yourself. It’s so that you can gain some insight on what has happened since day 1, and what patterns are continuing today. That would give you added perspective. And yes, it would be time-consuming and somewhat boring at times to slog through all that.

But wait!! In your next paragraph below, you say you are genuinely worried... and yet you seem to refuse to do the hard work of slogging through so that you actually COULD gain some perspective.

Those of us who are genuinely worried about the health of Tesla, either because we're about to spend a lot of money on one of their cars, or because we have significant net worth invested in their company, have every right to question, probe, criticize or even outright doubt the information coming from Tesla. They're a public company who are legally obligated to protect their shareholders above everything else (that's what it means to be a PLC).

Sure, doubt. Then pursue that doubt with research. Which leads us back to my first paragraph. Oh, you have equity research in your company? That must be the be-all and end-all then. Again, perhaps some added perspective would help.

They have the same obligation to do that as all companies, from Apple to Enron and everyone inbetween.

Enron? Really?

I’m here to be informed and learn as much as anyone, and offer my own view (isn't that what a forum is about)

From what I’ve read, perhaps not “learn as much as anyone” because many here have put years into this effort.

I do get where you are coming from. You are concerned, you have questions, it’s difficult to weed out grains of real truth within all the billions of FUD articles out there. But the tone of some of your questions definitely have a “Tesla must be lying” tone to them. Tesla makes mistakes but from what I’ve seen, the company is driven by their mission statement and overall does an honest and credible job. That’s just my opinion, of course, but I HAVE read thousands upon thousands of posts, both questioning and factual responses, and those are what led me to that conclusion.

 

[Boomer19]

I’ll leave likes on those tweets boomer

you know about $TSLA for people to find the tweets more easily?

there - new one.
jb on Twitter

@ValueAnalyst @Reciprocity @MacRocket

 

[Boomer19]

I know little about security law. Here is a hypothetical question. If somebody created some rumor and drove down the SP to gain from the market, did she/he violate certain security law? On the other hand, somebody else was forced to sell on a loss due to margin call caused by the rumor and had a substantial loss, can she sue for loss?

happens nearly every day. good luck suing anyone

 

[MikeC]

I think there is naturally going to be some conflict between the perspectives of new members and those who have been here for years and know the history of the stock. I think most veterans of this board have done very well financially by ignoring FUD and trusting in Elon and the company. They don’t see any reason to change their viewpoint now just because the FUD has increased.

At the same time, new members who are not already sitting on 10x gains will not have this confidence and therefore will be more susceptible to FUD. Hopefully, we get some nice share price appreciation soon and turn our skeptical new members into full-fledged Elon fanboys.

 

[SPadival]

Guys. Relax !! This is Uncle Thanos throwing the kitchen sink at Iron Man Elon and his ragtag bunch of Twitter TeslAvengers (I am still chuffed that I gave him the perfect assist to go after Linette )

It is a sure sign of panic and desperation - I mean he brought out and played his "credible" trump cards - the Yale professor and the Enron journalist/author (both with clear links to Thanos).

It is all downhill from here. I mean,who's next? the plagiarist analyst Gordon Johnson whose career he resuscitated? (Joe Nocera getting convinced with just a phone call is just "get out of here" laughable)

or the Goldman analyst David Tamberrino, whose only available mugshot on the interwebs is from his college Lacrosse team profile!!

Which reminds me of this memorable passage from the Big Short author Michael Lewis' article. It is kinda of hard to drag him on TV and then the outcome maybe the opposite of what's expected! LOL

In McCarthy’s view, the dominant narrative inside the head of the average Irish citizen—and his receptiveness to the story Kelly was telling—changed at roughly 10 o’clock in the evening on October 2, 2008. On that night, Ireland’s financial regulator, a lifelong Central Bank bureaucrat in his 60s named Patrick Neary, came live on national television to be interviewed. The interviewer sounded as if he had just finished reading the collected works of Morgan Kelly. Neary, for his part, looked as if he had been dragged from a hole into which he badly wanted to return. He wore an insecure little mustache, stammered rote answers to questions he had not been asked, and ignored the ones he had been asked. A banking system is an act of faith: it survives only for as long as people believe it will. Two weeks earlier the collapse of Lehman Brothers had cast doubt on banks everywhere. Ireland’s banks had not been managed to withstand doubt; they had been managed to exploit blind faith. Now the Irish people finally caught a glimpse of the guy meant to be safeguarding them: the crazy uncle had been sprung from the family cellar. Here he was, on their televisions, insisting that the Irish banks were “resilient” and “more than adequately capitalized” … when everyone in Ireland could see, in the vacant skyscrapers and empty housing developments around them, evidence of bank loans that were not merely bad but insane. “What happened was that everyone in Ireland had the idea that somewhere in Ireland there was a little wise old man who was in charge of the money, and this was the first time they’d ever seen this little man,” says McCarthy. “And then they saw him and said, Who the **** was that??? Is that the ****ing guy who is in charge of the money??? That’s when everyone panicked.”

 

[Boomer19]

apologies in advance but i’m going to “unfriend” anyone on twitter. i didn’t do it for folllwers. i have 0. but i don’t know how to prevent them. and this is too important to ignore. i just don’t want any fellow readers to be offended if i don’t allow them to follow on twtr. again i only follow elon and have 0 followers. i don’t like twitter but this smear campaign has to stop. and elon has 22mm strong there. that’s the key.

 

[Boomer19]

Guys. Relax !! This is Uncle Thanos throwing the kitchen sink at Iron Man Elon and his ragtag bunch of Twitter TeslAvengers (I am still chuffed that I gave him the perfect assist to go after Linette )

It is a sure sign of panic and desperation - I mean he brought out and played his "credible" trump cards - the Yale professor and the Enron journalist/author (both with clear links to Thanos).

It is all downhill from here. I mean,who's next? the plagiarist analyst Gordon Johnson whose career he resuscitated? (Joe Nocera getting convinced with just a phone call is just "get out of here" laughable)

or the Goldman analyst David Tamberrino, whose only available mugshot on the interwebs is from his college Lacrosse team profile!!

Which reminds me of this memorable passage from the Big Short author Michael Lewis' article. It is kinda of hard to drag him on TV and then the outcome maybe the opposite of what's expected! LOL

it really is an act of desperation on how transparent it was. but still, don’t underestimate them

 

[JRP3]

You do not speak for everyone here.
I very much like considered bear arguments.

As do I. So, in fact, I think I do speak for everyone here, unless you think telling us TSLA is "risky" and that we are fan boys and a bull echo chamber, which we've heard from day one, is a "considered bear argument". I suspect you do not.

 

[Do It]

I'm cross posting this here from the general thread for discussion.

Wow. As nauseating as it was to sit through that interview, I think everyone should view it because of its potential influence on the market. That is some scathing criticism of Elon from a couple of interviewees besides Lopez. It wasn't just Lopez, but the respected author Bethany McLean of the Enron book as well as Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, the associate Dean of the Yale School of Management. Enron and Theranos were brought up in the discussion, as analogs to what is going on with Elon and Tesla. They brought up the comparison with John Carreyrou, the author of Bad Blood, the book about the journey of exposing Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos of fraud. He was ruthlessly attacked by Holmes while investigating Theranos. Bethany directly compared Elon to the angry belligerent behavior of the Enron crooks when they were being investigated. Sonnenfeld agreed with their characterization of Elon. He cites examples of CEOs under attack who came out and just corrected the facts without personally attacking others. He was extremely critical of Elon while being very supportive of Lopez.

They characterize Lopez as a reporter under attack for just trying to get the facts out, which obviously seems to ignore the tone of her articles. Many watching the interview wouldn't know what the tone of her articles is like though. Bethany says Elon's behavior is indication that Lopez is right and that she is on the right track. She commends Lopez for her courage.

Sonnenfeld then talks about "poor Jim Chanos" being in the middle of Enron and now Tesla. He says it's unfortunate that Elon so fundamentally misunderstands Jim Chanos, who is "a very honest smart guy." "For Musk to somehow say there is some trading taking place from Chanos on this information is ludicrious." (love that choice of word!) They all then agreed with how honest and open Jim Chanos is, and that he speaks openly with all of them frequently. Sonnenfeld indicates that he agrees with Lopez that investors should be worried, and that Elon is holding Tesla's board of directors hostage, while making $2.5 billion this year. Sonnenfeld referred to Lopez as a "brilliant" reporter.

I have to say, if you don't know a lot about Tesla and Elon, this kind of stuff could easily create a lot of concern for investors. This SEC whistleblower situation is making me a little concerned about the shorter term. I sure hope that Elon is squeaky clean and hasn't knowingly exaggerated some things that could be interpreted as an intent to influence investors. I imagine that wouldn't go over well. It's one thing to be eternally optimistic about ramps and future timelines, but it's another thing to knowingly indicate something different than what is occurring in an effort to bring an embattled company through a really tough stretch. I wish I could say that I am 100% confident he has not exaggerated some numbers over this tough model 3 ramp.

I want to put the following in the comment section of the interview but would like to share it here first. Let me know if you have suggestions.

This is a hit piece intended to hurt tsla disguised as an interview about Journalism and CEOs criticizing Journalists. Here are the evidences:

1. CNBC invited 3 people on one side and no one on the other side to present opposite view.
2. All three people were connected to Chanos the short seller (Lopez: Linette Lopez on Twitter, Sonnenfeld: James Chanos, https://som.yale.edu/faculty/jeffrey-sonnenfeld, McLean: Bethany McLean: your benefit of the doubt is hereby revoked | Deep Capture) Looked like McLean had done this kind of job to Fairfax in the past. To see the dirty tricks of Chanos and his gangs played against Fairfax: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/fairfax-pdf.310679/
3. They proclaimed that the point was about “Journalists under attack” yet repeatedly asked that “investors should re-consider investing in tsla”. Their own words betrayed their real intention.
4. Martin Tripp, the ex-tesla employee who was the source of Lynette’s piece, was clearly someone who intended to hurt tsla through his leaks. Since being caught and sued by tesla, he claimed whistleblowing but his behavior (going to a biased reporter instead of authority, leaking documents about inefficiency and waste which were not whistleblowing materials, etc.) clearly showed that he was a person bent on hurting tesla. Writing a piece based on a shady character like Tripp was not the behavior of an unbiased Journalist interested in reporting truth.
5. McLean almost admitted that she was biased by saying that Elon was also biased because he had incentive to grow tsla market cap. Elon has fiduciary duty to grow tsla and its market cap so there is nothing wrong about that. However, disgusting as an unbiased reporter writing pieces with the real intention to drive down stock price is not Ok.

CNBC should be ashamed of being part of this!

 

[SteveG3]

I want to put the following in the comment section of the interview but would like to share it here first. Let me know if you have suggestions.

This is a hit piece intended to hurt tsla disguised as an interview about Journalism and CEOs criticizing Journalists. Here are the evidences:

1. CNBC invited 3 people on one side and no one on the other side to present opposite view.
2. All three people were connected to Chanos the short seller (Lopez: Linette Lopez on Twitter, Sonnenfeld: James Chanos, Jeffrey A. Sonnenfeld, McLean: Bethany McLean: your benefit of the doubt is hereby revoked | Deep Capture) Looked like McLean had done this kind of job to Fairfax in the past. To see the dirty tricks of Chanos and his gangs played against Fairfax: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/fairfax-pdf.310679/
3. They proclaimed that the point was about “Journalists under attack” yet repeatedly asked that “investors should re-consider investing in tsla”. Their own words betrayed their real intention.
4. Martin Tripp, the ex-tesla employee who was the source of Lynette’s piece, was clearly someone who intended to hurt tsla through his leaks. Since being caught and sued by tesla, he claimed whistleblowing but his behavior (going to a biased reporter instead of authority, leaking documents about inefficiency and waste which were not whistleblowing materials, etc.) clearly showed that he was a person bent on hurting tesla. Writing a piece based on a shady character like Tripp was not the behavior of an unbiased Journalist interested in reporting truth.
5. McLean almost admitted that she was biased by saying that Elon was also biased because he had incentive to grow tsla market cap. Elon has fiduciary duty to grow tsla and its market cap so there is nothing wrong about that. However, disgusting as an unbiased reporter writing pieces with the real intention to drive down stock price is not Ok.

CNBC should be ashamed of being part of this!

looks very good Do It.

couple of thoughts...

did CNBC refer to Tripp as a whistle blower? if so, might want to point out that he is a self-proclaimed whistle blower, has no such legal status, and to refer to him as such is quite misleading. Tesla refers to him as a saboteur... somehow CNBC does not, lols.

personally... I prefer something like "CNBC, you can do so much better" more so than the last line as is.

appreciate the solid and thorough effort, and look forward to giving it a "like."

 

[madodel]

apologies in advance but i’m going to “unfriend” anyone on twitter. i didn’t do it for folllwers. i have 0. but i don’t know how to prevent them. and this is too important to ignore. i just don’t want any fellow readers to be offended if i don’t allow them to follow on twtr. again i only follow elon and have 0 followers. i don’t like twitter but this smear campaign has to stop. and elon has 22mm strong there. that’s the key.

You don't get social media do you? If no one follows you/retweets your posts you may as well just be a bear pooping in the woods by yourself.