It’s been doing that on and off the past few days. Almost as annoying trying to read your original post
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It’s been doing that on and off the past few days. Almost as annoying trying to read your original post
The Blue Owl
Endangerous Herbivore
Very different, indeed. Tesla is currently a performance speed boat. VW group is a fleet of oil tankers. Those don't turn on a dime.
Try telling your shareholders you're going to have to cut and re-invest all of those juicy dividends if the company is going to compete! More generally, when we see a technology-driven transition in the market, when does the dominant player in the old paradigm become the dominant player in the new?
Mainframe to PC (IBM/MSFT), PC to Internet (MSFT/GOOG), PC to smartphone (MSFT/AAPL), DVD to Streaming (Blockbuster/Netflix), commerce to e-commerce (just about any retailer you care to name except Walmart/AMZN).
What if VW is the primary investor in a Tesla privitization bid?
Not like VW hasn’t bought a valuable car company before.
Tesla reportedly considering building in a VW factory dense area.
Nice way to adapt to the diesel gate.
Nice way to improve tech up and down the VW ownership lineup.
Would be unstoppable
Not like VW hasn’t bought a valuable car company before.
Tesla reportedly considering building in a VW factory dense area.
Nice way to adapt to the diesel gate.
Nice way to improve tech up and down the VW ownership lineup.
Would be unstoppable
If you had to choose between the public’s reaction to Saudi Arabia or VW dumping large pile of cash into Tesla, which would be more negative? (I’m not being a smartass.)
Thumper
Active Member
VW would be an even worse partner than Saudis. I wouldn't vote for it.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Don't worry, they would just spend all their time trying to figure out how to get a 100 kWh battery pack and a V8 into a VW bug so they could have the best of both worlds and fool the regulators. LOL!
Dan
Gosh, there's that one company that's really hitting on all his key points. I'm trying to remember it's name...
Oh yeah, Lucid, that's it.
True.
One element that has not been mentioned in the article is that the German OEMs did succeed in the global markets for decades by pushing most of what we call competitive edge out to the tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers but kept the orchestration and engine & classy design in their hands. They have been very successful in pushing cost down by making suppliers dependent up to the point where they file bankruptcy demanding the impossible. Doing that a few decades and you loose competence.
Now with the new EV challenge in front of them they try to apply exactly the same method they have been successful with manufacturing ICE cars. Large OEMs have lost the ability to build competitive components of their cars themselves. This includes Batteries and B-packs. Even after the tear down of the 3 they still do not understand the superiority of the small cells and the battery management in the penthouse versus their large packs as well as the heat transformation and exchange within the car. Because of that, they believe the battery is a commodity and does not represent a differentiating factor. Also investing in a B factory where they do not make money because of low volume sounds for them like taking a supplier role over and having all the trouble but no profit.
Today they feel like they can apply that supplier structure to the new EV challenge. Thats like as they say: "I have a hammer and every problem in front of me is a nail I can hit" I believe this is again a huge mistake and is a prove of their incompetence around EVs and their underestimation of the challenge in front of them.
At least good to hear that he does believe that VW has a challenge to overcome. Until now they did not acknowledge that even.
I agree ..and I think a lot of company's are coming to the same realization.
Funny thing is these are the company's that are presented as the Tesla killers.
Johann Koeber
Happy Owner
1. VW would never do that
2. Elon would never allow that
Just my opinion. We will see how this doesn’t play out.
I dunno.
I think there is much more synergy between VW + Tesla than Saudi + Tesla.
And if I personally who had to choose who had a higher moral standing, it isn’t hard...big difference between the two options for me.
And again, wouldn’t be the first, second, or even fifth luxury car brand bought by VW...
By converting the largest mfg in the world through tech transfer, this is the fastest way to Tesla’s mission statement.
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
Can you explain that?
I always thought that Tesla using cylindrical cells was more about maintaining cell supplier independence than any intrinsic advantage of the cylindrical form factor.
For example Tesla was able to use Samsung cells for the Australian battery project with little changes to the pack design.
By using the 21700 form factor they could, in principle, source batteries from a different supplier in the Chinese Gigafactory, not Panasonic.
The pouch cell design most other carmakers are using is automotive optimized, with some advantages over cylindrical cells - but ties carmakers to the cell/pack manufacturer a lot more tightly.
And to talk about market action: a VW takeover of Tesla would be a huge event but I'm not seeing it either. Why would Tesla burden themselves with ICE legacies? Tesla already has a high throughput Model 3 line running - which is pretty much the only experience VW could have brought to the table.
Fact Checking
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, VolumeBot has been measuring over 60% shorting activity for TSLA for the past 3 days (chart doesn't include today's data):
tsla | Volumebot
This suggests that the $100 drop from $380 was not driven by shorting primarily, and that they started shorting again and were shorting yesterday and Monday as well, against strong buying pressure.
tsla | Volumebot
This suggests that the $100 drop from $380 was not driven by shorting primarily, and that they started shorting again and were shorting yesterday and Monday as well, against strong buying pressure.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
You meant some advantages but also some really big drawbacks? Main advantage being volumetric energy density but biggest drawbacks being safety, heat management and modularity.
It may have been that Tesla started with the 18650s simply for supply reasons, but I think history shows that it was the best choice overall. Even if Tesla build millions of cars and have several battery gigafactories in the future I doubt they'll be building prismatic cells. But new battery technology further in to the future may make the whole discussion irrelevant (solid state? Ultra capacitors? Miniature fusion reactors?
)By the way the guys who were supposed to come to work at 10.30 must have been delayed. Maybe they're still playing racketball? Less than 4 million shares traded today and only three hours left...
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