TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[Causalien]

EM made the cardinal sin of going against the old boys club norms which dictate Wall St fat cats get their share of unearned profits before anyone else can invest. They would have liked it if like all other companies he quitely talked to big players and took the company private while screwing small investors.

Heh ya. The only person notorious enough to be persecuted is Madoff in GFC. And that's because he rip offed the old money club. SEC is basically a guard dog for them. So it wouldn't be far fetched to say that EM pissed off somebody or that he just doesn't have enough connection in the east coast of wallstreet.

Maybe it's turning out to the age old war of tech vs finance. Nerds vs Jocks.

 

[Foghat]

Anyone else have issues with this part of the suit? How can you be reckless through lack of knowledge?

The SEC has not provided evidence to motivation. Intent and motivation determine if willing and premeditated misleading statements had occurred. The statement was a consideration of going private.

The response of the market would have happened whether this was done in a Reuters press release or not.

The SEC is on trial here by not gaining clarification on musk’s statement intention based on evidence provided. He did not make any stock sales nor did any board memeber or Insider. His statement actually prevented any insider trading or leaks to interested parties such as short hedge funds.

The SEC is actually parroting short hedges positions, not regulating whether a CEO willingly made false statements to obtain financial gain.

If the SEC found any evidence of intended financial gain, then they would have stated so. However, the only point out that a deal memo was not signed or prepared to be signed, which was not what Elon tweeted in announcing a consideration through twitter.

There is no motive to mislead, therefore there is no case.

 

[Causalien]

Elon... why did you not take the settlement, and put us through the ringer??? I know all the TMCers could easily come up with the money together, and could easily secure the funding.

Elon has never thought about stock holders in that way. Settling to get the news out of the way for stock price stabilization is not his style. He will fight tooth and nail regardless of the damage to the stock price. Always has been that way. I'd like him to learn the other way because helping his shareholders win actually helps him win. But winning against perceived wrong irregardless of the damage it will do to his surrounding is built into his character.

Paying out a fine is probably ok. But removal as director and CEO is probably not. Though, if EM rejected a settlement of just paying out a fine but stay on as director and CEO, I'd be furious.

 

[JRP3]

Through avoiding getting the knowledge.

How do you know what you don't know?

 

[Singuy]

SEC has jurisdiction over how a company officer interacts with stock market but it does not have jurisdiction over how a company run its daily business - that power belongs to share holders. If we share holders want Elon to run tsla daily business it is none of SEC's business. We should make a share holder proposal to create a "daily business runner but not a company officer" title and empowered the position with everything required to run tsla daily business, and pass it in an emergency shareholder meeting.

I feel like if the *sugar* actually hits the fan, there will be all sorts of loopholes to have Elon in charge. Elon is not going anywhere. He is part of Tesla's mission and the board can trust no one else but Elon to carry out the mission of accelerating sustainable energy. His response to someone who asked if he would ever give up the CEO position at spaceX, and he said he must trust that person to not just seek for profit but has his/her sight on Mars as the mission. You lose Elon, you lose the company's mission with it.

 

[Cosmacelf]

DJ Newswire just had headline that Elon's lawyers rejected SEC settlement offer on Thursday.

Whelp, so much for the quick and painless route. I wonder what the settlement offer was.

 

[TSLA_Hopeful]

Elon has never thought about stock holders in that way. Settling to get the news out of the way for stock price stabilization is not his style. He will fight tooth and nail regardless of the damage to the stock price. Always has been that way. I'd like him to learn the other way because helping his shareholders win actually helps him win. But winning against perceived wrong irregardless of the damage it will do to his surrounding is built into his character.

Paying out a fine is probably ok. But removal as director and CEO is probably not. Though, if EM rejected a settlement of just paying out a fine but stay on as director and CEO, I'd be furious.

I guarantee it was going to be something like a big fine, twitter restrictions, and giving up the chairman position. He didn't take the settlement because it would cause damage in the civil lawsuits thrown his way.

 

[Singuy]

Elon has never thought about stock holders in that way. Settling to get the news out of the way for stock price stabilization is not his style. He will fight tooth and nail regardless of the damage to the stock price. Always has been that way. I'd like him to learn the other way because helping his shareholders win actually helps him win. But winning against perceived wrong irregardless of the damage it will do to his surrounding is built into his character.

Paying out a fine is probably ok. But removal as director and CEO is probably not. Though, if EM rejected a settlement of just paying out a fine but stay on as director and CEO, I'd be furious.

If Elon accepted a settlement in which it contains the removal of himself as the CEO then I would be furious.

 

[TSLA_Hopeful]

The Latest: Tesla, directors indicate they stand behind Musk

Tesla BoD standing behind Elon.

 

[Krugerrand]

Elon... why did you not take the settlement, and put us through the ringer??? I know all the TMCers could easily come up with the money together, and could easily secure the funding.

Maybe nothing more than principle. What we do know for sure, Elon never gives up.

 

[Navin]

Just in.

Tesla files an 8k - Elon’s title has been changed to Not-A-CEO. All back to work.

 

[Quassinoid]

The Latest: Tesla, directors indicate they stand behind Musk

Tesla BoD standing behind Elon.

Is there a recent official statement release from Tesla or the BoD? This article looks like it paraphrased the original statement Tesla BoD put out back in August following the original Tweet.

 

[gene]

hmmm...this would be a fearful moment for many people. I've got about $50k cash (and a lot of TSLA) in my SEP IRA account. I think I'll try and time the major dip tomorrow and go all in. I'm guessing whatever the low tomorrow is, is about as low as we will see.

 

[Krugerrand]

It was half a joke... but I'm sorry Elon fighting now shows the board has no balls and nobody to stand up to him. He is risking everything here.

Are you new? He risks everything all the time. He just finished risking everything on Model 3. You’re upset at the wrong person.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Looking back at Theranos for past high profile SEC actions. Lots of people knew Theranos was problematic, but the stock fell off a cliff in November 2015, signalling everyone new it was a fraud. SEC files lawsuit against Holmes ~2.5 years later, with fraud clearly in the first line of the complaint https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-41-theranos-holmes.pdf

In Elon's case, SEC files against him in less than 2 months, mentions no fraud, only false and misleading statements, and no financial gain.

Huh... Passed my last 4 hours reeling in my chair. Now this smells like BS.

I don’t think Theranos was ever a public company?

 

[mongo]

Thanks for this. So if I understand correctly, the uptick rule will be triggered if TSLA goes below $276.76 at any point on Friday (10% below Thursday's close).

Or, is it the 9:45 am exception that doubles the trigger limit to -20% invoking the uptick rule if SP goes to $246.01

Just tryin' to understand...

Sorry, those were two seperate things.
Up tick rule is 10% drop from previous close during any point of normal trading.
Division of Trading and Markets: Responses to Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Rule 201 of Regulation SHO

 

[Intl Professor]

Elon may have screwed up, but not intentionally to cause harm or profit for himself. This SEC move stinks of Trump Administration involvement backed by PetroDollars. This needs to be looked into.

Well said.

Item 1. Trump is a crony capitalist. Item 2. One of his favorites is coal, the investors and owners, not the actual miners. Item 3. Trump is part of the tribe who hate green energy and he has proved his worth by rescinding U.S. participation in the Paris Climate accord. Item 4. He has not hesitated to attack many corporations, especially the media and the Washington Post in particular because it is owned by Jeff Bezos, so he has attacked Amazon. Item 5 and most important, the White House has issued a ukase for all agencies to look for ways to impede the march toward green energy.

QED, the suit by SEC is their response to the ukaze. Like good burrocrats they are just following the Leader. There appears to be collusion, and of course I know there is no criminal statute against collusion, but it may be a Rico violation by the government itself.

Is that an impeachable offense, a high crime or misdemeanor? The treason part best left to the Mueller investigation which will likely disappear soon.

Just trying to put all this jabber into context.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

We're famous guys!

Will Elon Musk be forced to leave Tesla?

 

[jhm]

Pace of innovation is all that matters in the long run...

Elon Musk, 9-26-18

I have nothing to add.

That has got to be the best Elon quote of all time. Reminds me of MLK, "The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

 

[Cosmacelf]

Wait, there was a settlement that SEC and Elon had already agreed on and then at the last second Elon changed his mind?

What in the goddamned seven hells is going on in Elon's head. Why not take the settlement and move on? What the hell is the point of doing this instead?

Why is everyone taking what the WSJ reported at face value? The WSJ could easily have shaded the story to make it sound worse than it was. No where does it say Elon originally agreed to the settlement. It could be as simple as Elon thinking about the settlement offer for a while and then deciding not to take it. The rest is a reporter’s or SEC’s embellishment.

Remember guys, the vast majority of Tesla reporting is bullshit.