What battery cells are in the 2023 M3 LR?

[Videomatic3]

Where does it say it supports 300kW charging?

Employee computer. Only thing I could do is ask him to take a picture of the screen and im pretty sure he's not allowed to do that.
I'm also going to point out that this isn't the first time tesla has software locked the model 3. It was first at 125kw then 150, later unlocked to 250. But this was more obvious due to the flat charging as shown in teslalogger.de with the older software versions. Now we are waiting for the full potential of a v3 charger or v4 charging, which I really cannot say. I wouldn't mind having a vin number for a German built model y with the LG battery to look it up too

 

[AAKEE]

I tried plugging my car into a v3 charger and the most I got was 170kw... a really long away from the supposed 300kw max the car supports. I'll make sure I'm at a more empty charging station next time, when I plugged in there was someone on all 4 slots

Where does it say it supports 300kW charging?

Obviously the person I answered

 

[AAKEE]

Employee computer. Only thing I could do is ask him to take a picture of the screen and im pretty sure he's not allowed to do that.
I'm also going to point out that this isn't the first time tesla has software locked the model 3. It was first at 125kw then 150, later unlocked to 250. But this was more obvious due to the flat charging as shown in teslalogger.de with the older software versions. Now we are waiting for the full potential of a v3 charger or v4 charging, which I really cannot say. I wouldn't mind having a vin number for a German built model y with the LG battery to look it up too

That picture is the old Panna 2170, the fastest batt for the M3.

A bit above you see my post with charging data for the LG 78.8 battery.

So for a LG there really is anything to lock up, as it just barely manage to reach 250kW before it drops quickly.

 

[voldar]

These are my numbers when charging on a V3 my Tesla MIC 2023 LR AWD :

All in all, pretty much consistent. The first numbers were obtained from a charge when the exterior temperatures was around 15C, the second charge was done in temperatures of about 29C.

 

[Videomatic3]

That picture is the old Panna 2170, the fastest batt for the M3.

A bit above you see my post with charging data for the LG 78.8 battery.

So for a LG there really is anything to lock up, as it just barely manage to reach 250kW before it drops quickly.

Yep. I questioned my source on that too. But he doesn't know. He just knows how to read the spec sheet

 

[GhostSkater]

Yep. I questioned my source on that too. But he doesn't know. He just knows how to read the spec sheet

Well, the Model S/X should have had a 324 kW update long ago, so maybe that's what he means, also, if you look at their charging curve and extrapolate from pack size, it should hit that number easily, they keep 250 kW up to 35%

 

[AAKEE]

Yep. I questioned my source on that too. But he doesn't know. He just knows how to read the spec sheet

Well, to make it easy:

It wont matter if Tesla ”unlock” the BMS Max charge power to 300kW.

The LG do not have any headroom for reaching that number (keeping the same chsrge power curve as now, which most probably is due to the maximum charge rate allowed not to break the LG Cells.

The old panna 2170 innthe classic m3LR has headroom. Shows as the flat surface on top at 250kW.

Also my MSP probably has a big overhead for higher charging power, having a flat surface at 250kW up to at least 35%.
It is possible to check in my logs, and I would have the data from my M3P if I had not (accidently) deleted it when chaning the car.
I have taken a lot of look at the BMS_Max_charge value esrluer but only concentrated on the low tempersture limitations.

 

[Videomatic3]

Well, the Model S/X should have had a 324 kW update long ago, so maybe that's what he means, also, if you look at their charging curve and extrapolate from pack size, it should hit that number easily, they keep 250 kW up to 35%

This exactly. Which makes me think the LG maybe locked until further data shows it can support more

 

[Videomatic3]

Well, to make it easy:

It wont matter if Tesla ”unlock” the BMS Max charge power to 300kW.

The LG do not have any headroom for reaching that number (keeping the same chsrge power curve as now, which most probably is due to the maximum charge rate allowed not to break the LG Cells.

The old panna 2170 innthe classic m3LR has headroom. Shows as the flat surface on top at 250kW.

Also my MSP probably has a big overhead for higher charging power, having a flat surface at 250kW up to at least 35%.

How is this easy? The model 3 was locked to 120kw when it first came out even though many people analyzed the car and proved with thickness of cable that it supported more

 

[GhostSkater]

This exactly. Which makes me think the LG maybe locked until further data shows it can support more

I don't think so, LG packs have higher internal resistance, which means voltage rise is higher for the same power, and the SoC vs voltage curve is one of the key parameters in having long battery life while allowing for fast charging since that allows you to not stress certain phase changes that happen inside the cell too much

Take a look at this thread I made I while ago comparing both (an 4680s, but that isn't relevant for this discussion). My speculation is that the NMC chemistry of the LG cells can't take much power in the various phase change region without rapidly accelerating degradation, so they have to be more conservatives when compared to NCA, or it's simply because Panasonic cells use Silicon on the anode and thus allows faster ion diffusion

Also, the bigger evidence no matter the reason is that LG packs have been on Tesla vehicles for years now, and while they have had some improvements in the past for faster charging, it never got close to the same as Panasonic cells, by ow Tesla have had plenty of time to gather data and improve if it was possible

https://twitter.com/x/status/1693684848639062043

 

[Videomatic3]

I dont really care about how stuff works or open to discussion or argument about things.
Here was the text I received, take it however you want to
I personally don't believe it either with my charging experience but I've already made my statements here.

Looking at this now. I see your car went through the factory with 0 reworks. Battery cells are LG Lithium Ion M50F1A cells Your M3 is forwards compatible with 300kW charging whenever that becomes available

 

[AAKEE]

How is this easy? The model 3 was locked to 120kw when it first came out even though many people analyzed the car and proved with thickness of cable that it supported more

If you look at the chart for the LG, you will see that it drops rapidly at very low SOC.
This is not due to the 250 kW limit but either due to Tesla safety margins or internal resistance that limits the charge power.
Its a well known fact among people that test batteries for themself that the LG M50 cell is not good for high currents/powers.

Research reports that test the LG M50 find it to degrade relatively fast if charged at reasonable charging C-rates (0.7C make it degrade much more than 0.3C).

Its not a bad cell, it holds up very good in the cars, low degradability in general.

It is not a high power cell.
It is not able to deliver the 400kW+ battery power needed for the M3P unless the SOC is 85-90% and the battery is warm.

My friend has a MIC M3P with the LG M-50 and I had a Fremont build with the Panasonic 82kWh at the same time.
Its clearly slower at other SOCs than 85-90% and warm battery.
We used performance measuring gear but you do not need that to know.

 

[KenBlub]

Please help explain what this data means to me as a practical matter. I have a 2023 Model 3 with the LG battery. Should I end up at SuC with a lower SOC, higher SOC or are superchargers harder on LG batteries than Panasonic? Or, does it just mean it will take me a few minutes longer to hit my hoped for SOC than other batteries? Sorry for my ignorance

 

[DrChaos]

Please help explain what this data means to me as a practical matter. I have a 2023 Model 3 with the LG battery. Should I end up at SuC with a lower SOC, higher SOC or are superchargers harder on LG batteries than Panasonic? Or, does it just mean it will take me a few minutes longer to hit my hoped for SOC than other batteries? Sorry for my ignorance

the second, if you arrive with a low SOC, it will take a little bit longer to charge than if you had NCA. Nothing different for you to do.

 

[KenBlub]

the second, if you arrive with a low SOC, it will take a little bit longer to charge than if you had NCA. Nothing different for you to do.

Thanks. I usually like to arrive with approximately 15%. Would I be better arriving at 25%? I realize it’s probably angels on a pinhead but this is new science to me

 

[DrChaos]

Thanks. I usually like to arrive with approximately 15%. Would I be better arriving at 25%? I realize it’s probably angels on a pinhead but this is new science to me

no, not better, will charge slower at 25% than 15%. Do what you normally do or what the car says and don't worry, enjoy your trip.

The primary directive is if you can keep your state of charge below 55% as long as possible, including stationary. This is for every day, not road trips---for that charge as high as you need to make it convenient.

Everything else is noise for battery degradation.

 

[AAKEE]

Please help explain what this data means to me as a practical matter. I have a 2023 Model 3 with the LG battery. Should I end up at SuC with a lower SOC, higher SOC or are superchargers harder on LG batteries than Panasonic? Or, does it just mean it will take me a few minutes longer to hit my hoped for SOC than other batteries? Sorry for my ignorance

Tesla most probably have already adjusted the charging power to the LG Cells properties.

Arrival at SOC, for fastest charging arrive with the smallest margin to 0% youre hapoy with.
Its not big differences, so unless in a EV race you might still need tge extra minutes for visiting the toilet, grabbing a koffe etc.

 

[ucmndd]

Things can vary in other parts of the world but essentially all long range Teslas are NMC.

No, until very recently every long range car in the US was NCA.

This new LR Model 3 being discussed in this thread is the first Tesla with NMC anything in the US.

 

[AAKEE]

No, until very recently every long range car in the US was NCA.

This new LR Model 3 being discussed in this thread is the first Tesla with NMC anything in the US.

Thats right!

To be very precise, the LG battery used is a NCMA or if we like to use the term NMC811 but with 4% Aluminium added. The cells is LG M-50

Tesla used a real NMC-cell in the model 3 in europe for a short while and the first MIC MY that europe did get also had that NMC.
The capacity was about 10% lower than the Panna 2170L.

 

[SQ97]

Been digging into this myself, as I have a 2023 LR and was wondering why it struggles to reach 250 kW. A bit disappointing that I didn’t know of this beforehand, but not the biggest deal. I am interested to see how the LG cells pan out in the US. There will come a time where we will need replacement modules, so hopefully there will be plenty of packs to pull from. Are there any other physical differences in the LG packs compared to the US Panasonic?