Drinyth
Member
Reading back through Happy Hippo's posts, his sound was constant as I read it and never faded in an out like many of us other folks have. That leads me to believe that his sound may have had a different cause than the rest of us?
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What is this high pitched cricket like noise?
- Thread starter rjack1282
- Start date
I always thought it was wind noise, Build date IDR but late 2022 but its been getting louder so im just waiting for it to get more audible so it can be heard clearly. only got 5k miles so plenty of time to get it fixed
I had previously posted on this thread about experiencing this issue with my Model 3. Tesla ultimately ended up replacing the front drive unit under warranty. My wife then purchased a Model Y and was experiencing the same issue. We finally got around to bringing it in and had some interesting learnings I wanted to share. The tech we worked with previously said they had been seeing this issue more and that they’d alerted the Tesla engineering team. They also said that corporate was no longer pushing back against them when they claimed to have another car with this issue and is telling them to go ahead and replace the motor. Just got back from a drive with the tech and he confirmed he heard the issue. They’re putting it up on the lift for good measure now to validate the issue is indeed the front motor vs another component but plan to get a replacement motor ordered for the Y as well.
So sorry to hear what a frustrating experience others are having with their Service Centers. My experience started as being very frustrating as well but after pivoting to another SC both issues were taken much more seriously and are being addressed. Frustrating as it is, trying to take your car to a different service center if you’re getting roadblocked is my main recommendation…
If anyone has any questions let me know.
So sorry to hear what a frustrating experience others are having with their Service Centers. My experience started as being very frustrating as well but after pivoting to another SC both issues were taken much more seriously and are being addressed. Frustrating as it is, trying to take your car to a different service center if you’re getting roadblocked is my main recommendation…
If anyone has any questions let me know.
Drinyth
Member
Just curious which SC you went to in MN that you had better experience at? I have an appointment last week, but my visit a few weeks ago didn't get me anywhere. If the SC that you have has better results with this issue, maybe I'll change my appointment to that location (if it isn't the one that I'm setup at already).
ev_go123
Member
Did both replacements fully fix the issue? It seems like about half the replacements on here still make the same noise...
I had first gone to the on in EP off Wallace Road and did not have luck in resolving the issue. I then went to the Washington Ave EP SC and they've been very helpful.
Good point - The replacement did fully resolve the issue on my Model 3. My wife's Model Y has now been officially diagnosed and the parts ordered, but they can't get me in to perform the work until May 1st. I'll report back when we get the car back to let everyone know if that did the trick.
Interestingly after they got the car up on the lift and ran it up to ~45 mph they said they did hear the noise quite loudly, but it was coming from the rear motor and not the front. Strange as this most commonly seems to be a front motor issue...
The noise seems to be correlated with temperature for me, as others have mentioned before. The warmer the temperature the less noisy it makes.
The timing of this is just unreal!
left my service center just recently a few days ago for my second visit. They attributed it to the coolant pump. They said they "simulated" hold and cold temperature extremes and was able to recreate the sound I described. So they replaced it, and believed it solved it.
What sucks is that, yes its temperature based for me as well, and down in Georgia, it has warmed up recently. And the fact that I have to drive 120 miles to my nearest service center, everything is "warmed up" by the time I arrived, making it even harder to recreate while im there. So after leaving and they replaced the coolant pump, I just had to hope they fixed it.
Fast forward to last night where out of the blue we get a cold front dropping temps to the high 40s overnight. I drove it this morning....aaaaaaaand guess what. Sounds still there, ALTHOUGH i will say it was a little fainter.
But I have no choice probably but to wait till next winter to see if it returns. ugh frustrating.
What sucks is that, yes its temperature based for me as well, and down in Georgia, it has warmed up recently. And the fact that I have to drive 120 miles to my nearest service center, everything is "warmed up" by the time I arrived, making it even harder to recreate while im there. So after leaving and they replaced the coolant pump, I just had to hope they fixed it.
Fast forward to last night where out of the blue we get a cold front dropping temps to the high 40s overnight. I drove it this morning....aaaaaaaand guess what. Sounds still there, ALTHOUGH i will say it was a little fainter.
But I have no choice probably but to wait till next winter to see if it returns. ugh frustrating.
ev_go123
Member
If it's coming from the rear, I have to wonder if they're even talking about the same noise at that point. There's a lot of different noises the drive units can make.
That being said, I should hook up my magnet/microphone to the rear unit and see if I can hear the same noise. Feeding a cable to a bolt on it might prove to be quite difficult though...
if you have an iphone and an extra 20 bucks, this is a good option maybe
ev_go123
Member
So what I'm using is a cheap pc mic hermetically sealed to a magnet with epoxy. If you stick the magnet to steel motor mounting bolt, it acts as a sort of mechanical stethoscope. Lets you hear "into" the motor. A regular mic would just pick up road noise etc. You might still hear the noise, but not nearly as well.
There's a pro level device called a ChassisEar that's similar but uses clips instead of magnet.
I was questioning that myself, but the tech said they've done a number of these since the SC worked on my Model 3 with this same issue, so I have confidence that they know what noise they're looking for. Said that it was a loud electrical pulsing noise coming from the rear drive unit. The real proof here will be if the noise is gone when I take the car in a few weeks from now. Fingers crossed...
I also have what appears to be a static / sizzle noise on my new model y LR which was delivered of April 2023. It only appears at speeds over 50 mph and most noticeable around 60mph. Took it to two different SC and both said noise is normal for newer drive units build end of 2022 and 2023. I suggest people. SC suggested I email [email protected] to voice my concerns.
That’s an incredibly shitty thing to say to someone.
I’m a long-time sufferer of these issues, it actually caused some painful hearing hypersensitivity (hyperacusis).
It’s a serious problem with electric drivetrains (not just Tesla). BMW and Mercedes are the best at reducing these annoying noises, but even in their cars I can hear it both at city and freeway speeds.
I have it documented in some earlier posts on Mar. 22 and 23:
Today was my service appointment, and I have a lot of new information to share. Mostly good news so far:
I brought my car in at 8am as the Urbandale, IA service shop opened up. I discussed the issue with a lead technician and the service manager for a while. I think they could tell that I was well-researched on the issue and had some credibility as a prior Tesla owner and a professional powertrain engineer. The tech said that I needed to take him for a ride and show him exactly what is going on. It was a bit challenging to find the right road conditions due to speed limits, road noise, and morning rush hour traffic, but I was able to recreate the issue to the degree that he recognized something was there. But to be honest, when I was hearing it make a bunch of noise, he said he really didn't notice anything. I think this is really an issue that some people will notice and some just won't!
The tech then took my car inside and spent about 30 minutes diagnosing it on the lift while I waited in the lobby. In service mode, they can individually drive the front and rear motors to diagnose issues like this. Sure enough, the rear motor was silent, and the front motor made enough noise to convince him that it needed a new front drive unit due to "a bearing issue". They shared that there is indeed an internal Tesla article/bulletin on this known issue, but it is still marked as "under investigation". It's hard to say if/when Tesla will do anything more about it. They said that the Tesla documentation refers to this as more of a 40-50 mph problem, not 50-70 as I have experienced. Hopefully it's the same issue...
So I of course asked: what are the chances that the replacement drive unit could have the same issue? The techs smiled a bit and confirmed that a certain percentage of the motors that get supplied for production get set aside as spare parts, so hard to say for sure. They had a spare drive unit in stock already and said they would get to it within a few days. I was offered a loaner of my choice -- which ended up being a Model X P100D
I'm also happy to say that I got the message at 5pm today that the service was already complete! So I plan to pick it up tomorrow morning first thing... I'm a little anxious that the issue could still be there, but I assume they ran it on the lift in service mode after the swap and confirmed no front drive unit noise.
Needless to say, I have had a positive interaction with my local service center, way beyond my expectations. They took my situation seriously. Fingers crossed that the issue is solved! Thanks to everyone that has contributed information to this thread.
The tech told me, the key to getting the new front drive unit was getting him out in the car to experience the issue in the right conditions. If I had just dropped it off, they would have taken it for a drive and probably concluded "everything's fine".
Well, lo and behold, the issue was not solved with the new front drive unit... Got on the highway after leaving the service center and... damn.
To be honest, I never really believed the whole "bad bearing" story for my situation. I still believe it is some kind of electrical noise when the vehicle is at steady-state conditions between 50 and 70 mph, with the power bar relatively low. (e.g., ~0% grade). I just figured replacing the drive unit (i.e. motor, inverter) had a chance at eliminating whatever issue was present, bearing, cable connection, or otherwise.
I think this is one of those deals where the service center connected my research into the issue with the Tesla service article and figured a drive unit replacement was the best shot. The original drive unit might have had no physical issues after all...
I recorded another iPhone video today, this time shared via streamable. (I think YouTube filters out some of the sound content I'm trying to highlight.) You might need to turn up the volume and try headphones or earbuds: 2023 Tesla Model Y LR - staticky noise, 60-70 mph The staticky noise is present from 0 to 0:20 and 0:34 to 0:50. It is not present from 0:20-0:34 when I am accelerating slightly.
Funny thing is, I realized that 66 mph is kind of the magic speed where the noise is the worst. This is the exact speed where the technician said he heard the noise when we went for the test drive with me yesterday...
Reading through this entire thread a couple days ago and listening to some of the audio/video recordings others shared, I get the feeling that there could be several different types of noise issues on this thread. I think some of these could be actual bearing issues; maybe others are not.
My best guesses (most to least likely) at this time are:
1. Electrical noise related to how the front drive unit is controlled at steady-state conditions between 50 and 70 mph. I need to do some more research into how the front motor is controlled in this condition... maybe I can find a diagnostic tool/app that shows how the motor is commanded.
2. The replacement drive unit is bad like the original one. This is possible.
3. Something with one of the auxiliaries in front of the firewall. e.g., coolant pump, valve, etc.
4. Some kind of weird wind noise due to a pinhole air leak or something like that. Seems unlikely.
At this time, I plan to let the SC know that the issue was not solved and do a bit more research into the issue before heading back for service.
I plan to do a bit more of my own investigation whenever I can get free day.... I've been a bit busy with higher-priority things the last few weeks. For me, the issue has been the same independent of weather, warm-up, etc. These don't make a difference. My thought is that I am not going to put the SC through another FDU replacement on a whim. We need to be a bit more intelligent before swapping hardware again.
I have a coworker/friend in Germany that designs EV systems for our company and is an EV hobbyist, having converted three cars to BEV on his own. He has also rebuilt a salvaged Model S. I described the issue to him over the phone and shared some videos, and his gut feel with limited info is something with EMI (electromagnetic interference). He recommended to use a spectrum analysis app at different points in the vehicle.
I do feel like I understand the conditions even better now, after putting on the first 1k miles. For me, it is really: constant speed between 50-70 mph (worst around 65), and the power bar really needs to be somewhere between 10-25% black.
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ev_go123
Member
I'm somewhat doubtful it's electrical in origin (EMI or otherwise), I think it's physical. At least in my car, taking a hard right makes the noise go away during the turn. I can't see any way that mechanical loading caused by the right turn would cause an electrical noise go away. I already posted frequency spectrum graphs in previous posts of the noise directly from the source (front drive unit). It's certainly coming from that, I can't see how you'd learn anything from listening in other parts of the vehicle. I fear the only way you'd really learn what's going on is to actually take a noisy front drive unit apart, and even then the issue might not be obvious.
So I actually asked the Professor John D. Kelly from Webber Auto youtube what he thought of the issue. He's a university professor who specializes in drive-trains, including EVs. I gave him a breakdown of the issue and he was very responsive, but he only had a theory. What he said:
"
- The following is my opinion only; it may be totally inaccurate -
The only thing I can think of that might cause that noise is what appears to be a sacrificial grounding bearing inside the rotor shaft near the resolver.
This bearing has a black metal tab inserted into its center race to connect it to the drive unit housing. I believe this connection grounds the rotor shaft and prevents shaft currents in the main rotor bearings.
If this bearing started to fail, it could make a noise that would change with the rotational speed of the rotor (vehicle speed).
Although this noise would have no immediate impact on the longevity of the other bearings, over a long period of time, it may become an open circuit, allowing the other rotor bearings to pass the inducted shaft currents and possibly cause premature failure.
Attached is. photo of the bearing and tab from the rear motor, but the front motor has an identical setup.
The tab is not painted. It makes a spring-loaded electrical connection with the inside of the center race of the bearing.
"
Interesting theory, but only really stays a theory until someone can tear-down one of these noisy units to investigate.
I also asked another Tesla tear-down Youtuber, Phill from Ingineeix. He's also take apart lots of the electronics on the model 3/y including the drive-train. Regarding our issue, he said that Tesla changed the front motor design around late 2021 (the earliest cars on this thread with the noise) from a copper "squirrel cage" in the rotor to an aluminum one. I wonder if other things changed then too. He also said "
The lack of noise after a sustained right turn means the lubrication oil is sloshing to the left. That could be an important clue. The motor is on the right, so this would take extra oil away from the motor side and deposit it in the gearbox side.
"
I was surprised the oil was thin enough to slosh, he said "The oil is quite thin, it's designed to be very low drag to not impact efficiency."
Another interesting theory, could also explain why temp plays a role, colder oil will be thicker and less likely to coat problemed parts.
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