TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

What Model X features will the S get? Huge HEPA filter? Auto open/close doors? Hitch?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by aus, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. aus

    aus Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    United States
    Just watched the Model X intro and was wondering what features will be added to the Model S.
    Will the nose cone stay?
    He didn't mention anything about the headlights either.
    That HEPA filter is going to be $$$ to change out.
    I don't really care for the doors either.
    The hitch might be a nice option for bikes or skis/boards.
    .
     
  2. Rafik

    Rafik Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    #2 Rafik, Sep 29, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
    For better or for worse, I guess I need to admit I'm quite relieved, having just taken delivery this past week. The new tricks of the X are certainly noteworthy and very impressive, though nothing is there that would give me buyer's remorse or make me wish I would have waited "just a couple more weeks" which everyone knows ends up turning into an unhealthy vicious cycle. The presenting front doors are a great party trick and a nice extension of the presenting door handles, though nothing I would miss if and when it ever came to the S. The HEPA filter is great, but nothing I'd lose sleep over. I don't need a hitch.

    I think the biggest surprise was that the top secret classified reveal on the front end wasn't so much the headlights as it was the nose of the car. I assume they heeded some of the criticism's of the model S nose cone. I actually do like the look of it on the X, though I sat around for a while trying to envision that nose on the S and I just couldn't decide if I'd like it more or less than the current nose. The larger nose of the X caters more to the feline sculpturing going on there, though I can't quite imagine it working as well on the S. I'm sure someone will do a lovely mock up of the S with that nose so I'll wait for that to come.

    Curiously absent was any mention of V7 or autopilot. No mention of these features whatsoever. Though it does have more sensors to automate the front doors and falcon wing doors, no mention of what role they play in auto pilot, though I assume they're integrated somehow.

    All in all, amazing show and unveil. I think the X will exceed expectations and though I feel a slight sense of guilt in saying this, I'm... kind of glad they didn't go out of their way to cannibalize S sales or give recent buyer's heart attacks.
     
  3. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    I thought the auto open/close doors were cool, but it seems like a novelty. Would you really want them to open every time? How does it know when to use the feature or not? How can it tell the difference between walking past the car in the garage and walking toward it? What if you walk toward the car from the front? Won't the opening door essentially "block" you (especially in a parking spot or smaller garage)? Will it only work in certain situations, like a diagonal walk from behind the car? If so, isn't that annoying to be inconsistent?

    I like the HEPA filter and the utility hitch option, though. I can see those being useful, but I wonder if they'll try to keep the "utility" more on the X side?

    And, yeah, any word on LED headlights? Or using the Autopilot hardware to allow them to follow the curves of the road? I know the current hardware/processor supports that, but you'd need the lights to be motorized.
     
  4. mscott

    mscott Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2015
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    I thought the mention of side impact avoidance was interesting. Wonder if that's something we can get on the S, or if that's enabled by the sensors on the falcon wing doors?

    Also, given all the speculation about how the rear seats might fold to maximize cargo space, the lack of any demonstration on that point seemed more glaring.
     
  5. caps04

    caps04 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    NJ USA
    I believe he mentioned that the car triangulates the driver's position (using the ultrasonic sensors + FOB detection?) as they approach the car and intelligently opens the door. So it has to be only when you approach diagonally from the rear or from the side.

    If triangulation is required, it is probably to avoid the exavt scenario you describe otherwise they could have just opened the door purely based on proximity like how it works now.
     
  6. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    Side Collision Warning has been shown in the release notes of Version 7.0 using the current Autopilot 1.0 hardware on the Model S. In the Release Notes, it specifically says it has "increased sensing range." Also, The Verge reports that Autopilot in the Model X and Model S will be "lockstep." To me, this indicates that any future Autopilot upgrades will be announced in an "Autopilot 2.0 Event" where the X and S will get the new hardware simultaneously. It doesn't make sense to significantly splinter their sensor suites, especially when they're working so long and hard to get functionality announced a year ago working safely.
     
  7. trond.strom

    trond.strom Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    Norway
    Ultrasonics that can see through metal?

    I might be a minority but the ultrasonic pucks on my S are annoying when waxing the car. Hidden ultrasonics is a nice little feature

    that and the utitlity hitch for bikes and skis would be swell
     
  8. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    This is a good question. He talked about the ultrasonics seeing through metal specifically for the doors not hitting the ceiling because it would require a position in the middle of the door. So, we know THAT sensor is hidden, but are all the ultrasonics hidden? Even around the front and rear bumpers? Because it would be a "nice to have."
     
  9. Rafik

    Rafik Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Doesn't appear to be the case

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1443589205.431667.jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1443589297.792976.jpg
     
  10. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    Yeah, that leads me to believe it will work only in specific scenarios. I guess you'd get used to when it will and wouldn't work, so it won't be frustrating. I can only imagine having your hands full, walking up to the car, and you came in at a slightly wrong angle so you have to walk back and try to trigger it again. I'm just curious how it'll work in the real world... and in how many scenarios. (And if you're close to another car or wall, will it automatically stop it from opening?)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you for confirming. Has anyone seen any detailed photos of that "bump" above the rear window (that could be some kind of antenna)? And could anyone confirm the forward-facing Autopilot camera on the windshield looks identical to the S?
     
  11. liuping

    liuping Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    San Diego
    "side collision warnings" is listed as on the update Model X Spec page, but is not listed in the Model S specs. I wonder if they need new sensors, and if we'll see them on the S soon.

    Screen Shot 2015-09-29 at 11.15.37 PM.png
     
  12. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    I've posted this elsewhere, but "Side Collision Warning" has been shown in the release notes of Version 7.0 using the current Autopilot 1.0 hardware on a Model S. It specifically notes "Blind Spot Assist" has been upgraded to "Side Collision Warning." While this doesn't preclude the X (or newer S) from having better sensors, it currently appears as though everyone with Autopilot 1.0 will get this feature. The Design Studio for Model S also mentions "Automatic emergency braking."

    Tesla's press release (from the past hour) makes no mention of better sensors and has specifically told the press the S and X will have Autopilot feature parity.
     
  13. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,949
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    I don't think this is correct based on what Elon said since at 7:24 he says "it will use the ultrasonic sensors around the side of the car to steer you away from a side collision." Then, at 29:17 he says "we actually developed a new ultra sonic sensor that is able to do sonar through metal.. in order to avoid having a puck... we thought the aesthetics of a puck would not be good since it would have to be in the center of the door."

    It seems to me that in order for the car to steer you away from side impact collisions, it will need sensors in the middle of the Model S doors too. I don't see how the front camera, or rear, and even far rear side sensors can do this. They needed to put them in the middle of the door of the Model X to do this. I bet the Model S will be rolling off the assembly line with these new sensors too sometime soon. But that's just my guess based on my dissection of the video.

    Elon Musk launches Tesla Model X (9.29.15) - YouTube
     
  14. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    Yes, I saw that, but I think that sensor is only for the door height. Here's a screen shot of the Release Notes for 7.0 on the Model S:

    Beta-Update-3.png
    (Source: Tesla Rolls Out Improved v7.0 Software Update to Beta Testers - TESLARATI.com)

    It specifically says "Blind Spot Warning" has been upgraded to "Side Collision Warning" in the software release notes.

    EDIT: Also, note Tesla's image of the Autopilot suite from their launch event, last year:

    tesla-model-s-autopilot-sensors.jpg
     
  15. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,949
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    #15 Canuck, Sep 29, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
    "Blind spot warning" is very different from using "ultrasonic sensors around the side of the car to steer you away from a side collision". I think the rear and front side sensors are sufficient for a warning, but maybe for steering you need side sensors smack in the middle. Plus, it make no sense to only use these side ultra sonic sensors for door height when they can also be tied into autopilot. In addition to steering, perhaps they can also be used for intersections, etc. This may be the missing piece of the puzzle for full vehicle coverage now finally solved by no ugly pucks on the sides, especially because they are probably higher up on the vehicle. Elon seemed to very impressed with this breakthrough development to be able to sense through metal so as not to detract from the aesthetics of the car. I doubt that patent will be opened up to the competition.
     
  16. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    The release notes specifically say "Blind Spot Warning has been upgraded to Side Collision Warning." "Side Collision Warning" is exactly what it's called on the Model X page. Isn't it more likely that "Side Collision Warning" is the exact same thing on both cars from the same manufacturer? Especially when Tesla has specifically told press the Autopilot features would be "lockstep" between the X and the S? I mean, we'll see, but it would be very confusing to use identical terms to mean different things.
     
  17. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,949
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    I think that's explained by the fact that they have learned their lesson about posting autopilot terms such as "steering" on the website when currently the X does not do any steering. But Elon clearly said the side sensors steer you away from a collision. I wonder why he would say that if they are not needed to do that. I guess we'll find out shortly if they start putting them on the Model S.
     
  18. MarkS22

    MarkS22 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    Well, the S has side sensors in that they claim it has "360 degrees of ultrasonic sensor." Not that in-the-door sensor, but it does already detect the side. The big question is how integral is the new door sensor to this new collision avoidance. Either way, not a huge difference. But it would be a nice incremental sensor on the S if it's used for more than door height.
     
  19. DMA

    DMA Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Brussels, Belgium
    I'm totally interested on such a bike rack for my MS!! I know that Torklift sells this, but I want a valid homologation for Europe/Belgium usage, which is, AFAIK, not possible today.
     
  20. travwill

    travwill Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    True, seems like just activated from the rear/side sensor. The kicker is, did you see how slow it was? Elon had to pause, wait a brief moment, and then slide in as fast as possible before fully open to make it seems like you had to sit and wait. No one is going to use that realistically - it'll be one of the most turned OFF features.
     

Share This Page