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What will be the price difference on the batteries be?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Fr23shjive, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Fr23shjive

    Fr23shjive Member

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    #1 Fr23shjive, Sep 30, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2010
    Any ideas on how much the 160, 230 and 300 batteries will cost?

    Anybody know how much more the 300 cost to make over the 160?

    I want to get the Model S but if its going to tack on 15k get the 230 or 300 mile battery then maybe ill wait for the bluestar.
     
  2. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Someone on the Tesla Motors forum allegedly emailed Tesla regarding that question. Apparently the response was that the 300mi pack will be $15k to $20k more than the base pack. But I'd take that with a grain of salt. We don't know the source, and things can change.

    Something you might want to do is figure out how many times you drive more than about 70% of the 160mi range in a day. I find it's just maybe 10 times a year for me. Consider if the extra cost is worth it, and if you could use an alternate ICE vehicle for those occasions. (I'll use my wife's car when necessary, if I decide to go with the base pack).
     
  3. Fr23shjive

    Fr23shjive Member

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    The only reason I would want the 300 mi range battery is because I go to Las Vegas 3-4 times a year, and even though I wouldnt want to put the miles on my car, I still want to know that I could get in my car and drive to Vegas without having to stop.

    I definitely wont want the 160 battery. Thats 2 days of driving for me so I just want a little bit more of a buffer in case something were to happen. Im not big on borrowing either. If anything I'll rent but I want to limit that as much as possible, hence the reason I want a 300 mi battery.

    I guess it really depends on the price.
     
  4. kgb

    kgb Member

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    You can rent a lot of cars for that!
     
  5. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    There is a huge variety of 18650 cells available right now.
    Suppose 2200mAh cells are $1.50 each in bulk. ( These are just guesses )
    Suppose 3000mAh cells are $4.50 each in bulk. ( When I say bulk I mean hundreds of thousands at a time )

    A 53kWh pack of 6800 2200 mAh cells is $10000 worth of cells. If you assume $5000 worth of overhead - thats a $15000 battery.
    A 73kWh pack of 6800 3000 mAh cells is $30000 worth of cells. Again $5000 overhead - thats a $35000 battery.

    Panasonic is shooting for 3400 mAh cells soon and 4000 mAh cells by 2013.
    I would assume that the max range model S will use an expensive bleeding edge cell and the base range will use a less expensive one.
    What the real cost per cell is now and will be in 2012 - I have no idea.
     
  6. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #6 stopcrazypp, Oct 1, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2010
    It's going to be impossible to find the direct supplier pricing Tesla has for the cells, but here's some more pricing from Alibaba (business-to-business sales website) that can help guessing. Keep in mind the prices Tesla is paying is likely a lot lower, but at least these prices are public.

    For current Roadster, cells likely Sanyo UR18650A 3.6v 2250mah
    http://battery.sanyo.com/en/spec/ion/UR18650A.pdf
    http://battery.sanyo.com/en/product/lithiumion_2.html
    Cheapest Alibaba FOB Price: $2.8 USD (Negotiable)
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/332104233/Li_ion_18650_battery_SANYO_UR18650A.html

    For 300 mile Model S, cells likely Panasonic NCR18650A 3.6v 3100mah
    http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr13pz.cgi?E+BA+4+ACA4001+NCR18650A+7+WW
    Cheapest Alibaba FOB Price: $5.0 USD (Negotiable)
    (pricing for closest available NCR18650 3.6v 2900mah cells)
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/257665997/NCR18650_Panasonic_2900mAh_3_6V_18650.html

    I would really like a recent estimate of average 18650 cell prices, it would really really help in guessing the prices of the cells for the Roadster.

    Supposed pack sizes for Model S:
    160 mi - 42kWh
    230 mi - 50+kWh ?
    300 mi - 70kWh ? (85-95kWh estimate from Tesla CTO J.B. Straubel)
    8000 cells
    http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1019687_tesla-model-s-technical-specs
    http://green.autoblog.com/2009/08/25/report-tesla-model-s-could-have-95-kwh-battery-pack/
    I put question marks for 230 & 300 mile because the only source for them are greencarreports.
    The official press release only says:
    ‧ 42 kWh battery storage system standard
    ‧ 70 kWh and greater battery storage systems optional

    Using the prices above I get:
    160 mi - 42kWh = $14.5k
    300 mi - 85kWh = $38.1k
    difference = $23.6k

    I don't think the $15-20k estimate is that far off. 2x range =~ 2x kWh =~ 2x cost, so the price difference will likely be around the cost of the standard pack.
     
  7. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Not sure if this adds anything, but back around the time of the Model S launch it was described to me this way. The 160 and 230 mile packs would use the same type of cells but the 230 mile pack would be larger (i.e., more cells). The 230 and 300 mile packs would use the same number of cells but the 300 mile pack would use ones of higher capacity.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yeah, I tried to portray that in the Model S specs page.
    I just consolidated what we saw in press releases and articles at the time.
    Given what we saw with the Roadster development, and with most car models in general, I wouldn't be surprised if the specs change somewhat before production.
     
  9. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

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    Now that's a fair question when making the choice to buy or not to buy. I too have has that question run across my mind.
     

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