What would make you cancel your Model 3 Reservation?

[JeffK]

I agree, most people can tell the difference in speeds, unfortunately as far as I know, it's illegal in the US to drive a car without a speedometer, which is my concern if something were to happen to the single display that pretty much controls everything. Sure, it's very unlikely that the main display would just die on you or get stolen, but if anything were to occur to it and it was rendered useless, what would happen? Will the driver risk a traffic infraction due to lack of a working speedometer or will the car detect damage to the main screen and lock all controls to ensure safety?

I really want to know how Tesla plans to deals with this unlikely scenarios, which could be possible with a growing vehicle fleet of half a million within the next 2 years. Hopefully, the final reveal will answer many questions and put several fears to rest.

Can you cite that law? I know there's a law for commercial vehicles but I can't find one for non-commercial vehicles.

 

[dsvick]

Sure, it's very unlikely that the main display would just die on you or get stolen, but if anything were to occur to it and it was rendered useless, what would happen? Will the driver risk a traffic infraction due to lack of a working speedometer or will the car detect damage to the main screen and lock all controls to ensure safety?

I really want to know how Tesla plans to deals with this unlikely scenarios, which could be possible with a growing vehicle fleet of half a million within the next 2 years. Hopefully, the final reveal will answer many questions and put several fears to rest.

According to all the owners who posted earlier in this thread, and in many others, the car was still perfectly drivable even after losing both screens. There is no reason to assume that the model 3 will not behave in the same way.

You will be fined if you speed. But if you say something like "my car doesn't have a speedo and I was estimating incorrectly" is reasonable excuse.

That is actually a horrible excuse and would likely result in a ticket. If you lose your speedometer your best bet is to set your speed so you're moving with the rest of the cars on the road. If there are no other cars it would be much better to err on the side of caution and reduce your speed so that you're almost assured of being under the limit.

 

[internalaudit]

One of the reasons I want an EV is to be able to drive on the leftmost lane on the highway, go with the flow, and not be heavily penalized in monetary terms (electricity and hopefully skipping the speeding tickets). I currently drive between 65-70 mph at the moment and don't mind driving a little faster if I don't have to pay a lot more for it (electricity at night is about 1/3 of the cost of regular octane gasoline). I will definitely need the speedometer because I can't be following someone driving 50 km/h over and have us both risk the impounding of our vehicles and license suspension.

On city roads, why would I want to follow the flow of slow traffic just to keep on the safe side if I can't tell what speed I'm driving at? I am no speed demon but I typically drive 10-13 km/h over on city roads (except in school zones where I only drive 1-5 km/h over) , coast towards red traffic lights, and try to keep up with faster cars because that's how the traffic lights work with sensors and all where I live. The moment the traffic flow is broken, lights typically turn yellow and then red soon after.

I'm definitely going with AWD after receiving and reading some feedback on how much better traction is. If the EV incentive is removed by mid-2018 and AWD is not available a month or two before then for delivery, I may just wait for the Model Y or check out potential M3 competitors.

 

[arnis]

Well I'm tired of even seeing people having a juicy discussion about "WHAT IF" speedo is not working.
This applies to every freaking vehicle. There is absolutely no difference how many displays vehicle has
as only one shows the speed (there are exceptions). Why the F is that a thing to talk about under Model3?
IT IS NOT A REASONABLE excuse to avoid Model 3.

A speedometer is necessary.

Well, 100% of European speedos lie. I literally mean all of them. Incl Tesla.
And speedometers were actually invented slightly more than 100 years ago.
For example, Leaf's speedo is slightly more than 10% wrong. Adjusted by manufacturer. Totally legal.
So I don't want to hear BS about speedos necessity and margin of error. It is useless at telling the truth in EU anyway.
Everybody who is not a moron drives according to what is appropriate, and not the needle.
Those who literally drive at/up to 50km/h according to Leaf's speedo in EU in 50 zone, with Leaf, are annoying morons
who ignore actual traffic, which moves at 57-65 real speed, depends on the country/region.
This is why my Leaf's speedo shows 70 when I travel in 50 zone. And I do it in front/behind of police as well.

And, for ffrank sake, whole world uses smartphones. Act according to situation, don't whine how dangerous it is to drive without speedo,
because it is stupid, and not dangerous if driver is not a moron who tries to drive at exactly 70mph in 70mph zone without a speedo, Waze, Garmin, other vehicles around, while being distracted by messenger app.

 

[JeffK]

Well I'm tired of even seeing people having a juicy discussion about "WHAT IF" speedo is not working.
This applies to every freaking vehicle. There is absolutely no difference how many displays vehicle has
as only one shows the speed (there are exceptions). Why the F is that a thing to talk about under Model3?


Well, 100% of European speedos lie. I literally mean all of them. Incl Tesla.
For example, Leaf's speedo is slightly more than 10% wrong. Adjusted by manufacturer. Totally legal.
So I don't want to hear BS about speedos necessity and margin of error. It is useless at saying the truth in EU anyway.
Everybody who is not a moron drives according to what is appropriate, and not the needle.
Those who literally drive at/up to 50km/h according to Leaf's speedo in EU in 50 zone, with Leaf, are annoying morons
who ignore actual traffic, which moves at 57-65 real speed, depends on the country/region.
This is why my Leaf's speedo shows 70 when I travel in 50 zone. And I do it in front/behind of police as well.

And, for ffrank sake, whole world uses smartphones. Act according to situation, don't whine how dangerous it is to drive without speedo,
because it is stupid, and not dangerous if driver is not a moron who tries to drive at exactly 70mph in 70mph zone without a speedo, Waze, Garmin, other vehicles around, while being distracted by messenger app.

Do you have a source? Most modern speedometers are very accurate. My Prius, for example, is spot on and confirmed by radar measurement. I can't imagine the European version is purposely skewed.

 

[arnis]

Do you have a source? Most modern speedometers are very accurate. My Prius, for example, is spot on and confirmed by radar measurement. I can't imagine the European version is purposely skewed.

The speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h.

And my Leaf has 10% plus 3km/h with winter set and 10% plus 2km/h for summer set. OEM sizes.
Leaf actually knows the correct speed. If I enable cruise control at 100km/h and reset "average speed" reading the REAL speed will appear. Speed that is used for odometer counting. That reading is 1-3km/h off, depends on tires. I've verified that with GPS's and also speed cameras that report your speed while you drive past them (and ask you to slow down if you speed too much).

This skewing is according to agreement. US did not agree on that. Luckily.

Speedometer - Wikipedia

 

[AlanSqB]

Do you have a source? Most modern speedometers are very accurate. My Prius, for example, is spot on and confirmed by radar measurement. I can't imagine the European version is purposely skewed.

LEAF speedos do notoriously over report speed. It's adjustable, but they come from the factory that way. It's funny because the car seems to always know the correct speed despite the speedo reading. For example, it always governors out at a real 90Mph on mine despite the speedo reading higher. It also applies to the cruise control lower limit. It's like they made the speedo read higher so you'd feel like the car is more efficient.

 

[JeffK]

The speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h.

And my Leaf has 10% plus 3km/h with winter set and 10% plus 2km/h for summer set. OEM sizes.
Leaf actually knows the correct speed. If I enable cruise control at 100km/h and reset "average speed" reading the REAL speed will appear. Speed that is used for odometer counting. That reading is 1-3km/h off, depends on tires. I've verified that with GPS's and also speed cameras that report your speed while you drive past them (and ask you to slow down if you speed too much).

This skewing is according to agreement. US did not agree on that. Luckily.

Speedometer - Wikipedia

LEAF speedos do notoriously over report speed. It's adjustable, but they come from the factory that way. It's funny because the car seems to always know the correct speed despite the speedo reading. For example, it always governors out at a real 90Mph on mine despite the speedo reading higher. It also applies to the cruise control lower limit. It's like they made the speedo read higher so you'd feel like the car is more efficient.

While the Leaf speedo may be off, the comment was:

Well, 100% of European speedos lie.

In the US, commercial vehicles also have a law requiring an accuracy within 10% as well. This doesn't mean they are inherently inaccurate though.

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

Can someone please update this thread title to say "Laws about Speedometers" and move it to off topic?

 

[sdugan99]

According to all the owners who posted earlier in this thread, and in many others, the car was still perfectly drivable even after losing both screens. There is no reason to assume that the model 3 will not behave in the same way.


That is actually a horrible excuse and would likely result in a ticket. If you lose your speedometer your best bet is to set your speed so you're moving with the rest of the cars on the road. If there are no other cars it would be much better to err on the side of caution and reduce your speed so that you're almost assured of being under the limit.

Or just use your phone, Waze would show your speed.

 

[eisbock]

Tesla is also dealing with that. Tesla ranger service is growing a lot.


What vital driving information? I think you are slightly over-optimistic about redundancy. There is nothing vital for driving.

People are going way too lazy and paranoid. Not long ago vehicles were like that:

Please look at the picture and tell my about vital things dash shows.

The one thing that is very important on your Model S actually has a button, right next to the screen.

And my previous post was slightly sarcastic as I was replying to already way to surreal situation.



No. Speedo is for legal reason. You will be fined if you speed. But if you say something like "my car doesn't have a speedo and I was estimating incorrectly" is reasonable excuse.
If one is scared to drive, one should reduce speed. If one is uncomfortable to keep up with traffic, one is not fit for driving.

Research says that up to speed of 90km/h people are good at guessing vehicle speed.

I know your point is that being able to see your speed is not vital, but it is. If Model 3's screen fails, you do not have access to vital information such as your speed, which is a legal requirement, regardless of how good you are at licking your finger, sticking it out the window, and nailing your speed with greater accuracy than a radar gun.

 

[eisbock]

Do you have a source? Most modern speedometers are very accurate. My Prius, for example, is spot on and confirmed by radar measurement. I can't imagine the European version is purposely skewed.

Ah, I see somebody recently got busted for speeding!

Once I was pulled over and when asked how fast I was going, I said I wasn't sure. He said "over 80".

Driven by an academic interest and also feeling a bit cheeky, I decided to ask him, "exactly how fast did you say I was going?", hoping to use this as an opportunity to calibrate my speedometer.

"Over 80."

Welp, at least I know my speedometer is accurate to within 8 mph.

 

[lmaccaro]

Well, if you have a tablet or smartphone you pretty much have all data input/output through one display.

Speedometer is helping with driving, doesn't actually have any meaningful point except if want to drive on the edge of the speed limit. Everybody can feel the difference between 30mph and 50mph. Or 50mph and 70mph. If one doesn't, one shouldn't drive.

If one needs radio control to drive the vehicle, then it's a mental problem. Use smartphone and headphones as a backup.
If you need AP to drive the car, then you don't actually have driving license (plausible in future, not now).

Point is when your central display is broken, or engine, or motor, or your current vehicle's speedo, you don't just ignore that and drive for weeks. You fix it ASAP. And having radio controls available while your Model S Speedo LCD has been smashed, doesn't actually help with speed monitoring. Having Model S's main display smashed and having speedo fully functional doesn't actually help with seat heater controls.
Philosophy is actually the other way around: one device for everything means minimal amount of stuff to go wrong. And having
it out of the dash might mean replacing it (if something goes wrong) might take less than 10 minutes.

And actually, AP and radio can be controlled with steering wheel buttons/stalks: no need to have any visual feedback.

Sorry, I don't want your endless list of compromises telling me to be OK with what I don't want. I want a car that is all-electric, no compromises.

 

[JeffK]

Ah, I see somebody recently got busted for speeding!

haha no, I just have some radar speed displays locally and I can verify my speedometer reading with them. Spot on.

 

[arnis]

know your point is that being able to see your speed is not vital, but it is.

No it is not. Yesterday, I covered my vehicles speedo and did some "guess the speed" tries.
I was consistently off by 5-13km/h. Tried during whole 25 minute driving commute. City and highway.
I didn't feel like anything vital was wrong with the vehicle at any time. Though I drove 10% slower.
I even tried with music playing. Estimations were still reasonable.

Let me list you some things that are vital and things that are not:
ABS no, hydraulic brakes yes, driver door window lift yes, central locking no,
driver side windshield wiper yes, rear wiper no, turn indicator lights no, brake lights yes,
driver side low beam yes, passenger side no, traction control no, horn yes.
Speedometer no, tachometer no, fuel gauge no, ambient air temperature sensor no,
clock no, navigation no, glove compartment light no, voice recognition no, existence of
binnacle behind the steering wheel no, heater-blower yes, AC no, engine oil pressure light yes.

I think that you would disagree on many things here if you disagree with speed reading.

Let's agree on word "vital" in automotive sector - must be fully functional at all times.
Why speedo is definitely not vital: because we don't look at speedo while we drive. We sometimes
glance at it. If it would be vital we would not be able to not look at it at any time. Though speed limits
always apply (except autobahns and tracks etc) most of us will be able to safely continue commuting
without speed reading. If some of us can't, that would be mean lack of skill that can definitely be learned.
Will speedo make things safer? It might. As will ABS or rear wiper or ambient air temperature sensor or
adjustable instrument cluster brightness control.


And to Jeff: Not all are so incorrect. The best I've seen is the latest BMW that shows exactly +3km/h at all times with OEM tire dimensions. Most vehicle fit between those extremes. Nevertheless, wrong is wrong.

I made a video to prove extremely incorrect reading that is done on purpose and not accidentally.
Average speed reading will be reset.

 

[JeffK]

No it is not. Yesterday, I covered my vehicles speedo and did some "guess the speed" tries.
I was consistently off by 5-13km/h. Tried during whole 25 minute driving commute. City and highway.
I didn't feel like anything vital was wrong with the vehicle at any time. Though I drove 10% slower.
I even tried with music playing. Estimations were still reasonable.

Let me list you some things that are vital and things that are not:
ABS no, hydraulic brakes yes, driver door window lift yes, central locking no,
driver side windshield wiper yes, rear wiper no, turn indicator lights no, brake lights yes,
driver side low beam yes, passenger side no, traction control no, horn yes.
Speedometer no, tachometer no, fuel gauge no, ambient air temperature sensor no,
clock no, navigation no, glove compartment light no, voice recognition no, existence of
binnacle behind the steering wheel no, heater-blower yes, AC no, engine oil pressure light yes.

I think that you would disagree on many things here if you disagree with speed reading.

Let's agree on word "vital" in automotive sector - must be fully functional at all times.
Why speedo is definitely not vital: because we don't look at speedo while we drive. We sometimes
glance at it. If it would be vital we would not be able to not look at it at any time. Though speed limits
always apply (except autobahns and tracks etc) most of us will be able to safely continue commuting
without speed reading. If some of us can't, that would be mean lack of skill that can definitely be learned.
Will speedo make things safer? It might. As will ABS or rear wiper or ambient air temperature sensor or
adjustable instrument cluster brightness control.


And to Jeff: Not all are so incorrect. The best I've seen is the latest BMW that shows exactly +3km/h at all times with OEM tire dimensions. Most vehicle fit between those extremes. Nevertheless, wrong is wrong.

I made a video to prove extremely incorrect reading that is done on purpose and not accidentally.
Average speed reading will be reset.

Did you check out the calibration settings in the service menu?

 

[arnis]

Did you check out the calibration settings in the service menu?

Talking about BMW? Yep. Same story with BMW. It actually knows the correct speed. But it reports "adjusted speed".
Aka same trick with "average speed" could be demonstrated.
And manufacturer locket out the coding section to disable that function. Can't code that. Not with speedo hidden menu nor laptop.
I could calibrate speedo to report GPS speed but then the odometer reading will start to drift off course.

 

[JeffK]

Talking about BMW? Yep. Same story with BMW. It actually knows the correct speed. But it reports "adjusted speed".
Aka same trick with "average speed" could be demonstrated.
And manufacturer locket out the coding section to disable that function. Can't code that. Not with speedo hidden menu nor laptop.
I could calibrate speedo to report GPS speed but then the odometer reading will start to drift off course.

Supposedly the Leaf has a service menu that enables you to adjust the accuracy. Not sure if it's true... My Prius doesn't have these issues.

 

[dsvick]

No it is not. Yesterday, I covered my vehicles speedo and did some "guess the speed" tries.
I was consistently off by 5-13km/h. Tried during whole 25 minute driving commute. City and highway.
I didn't feel like anything vital was wrong with the vehicle at any time. Though I drove 10% slower.
I even tried with music playing. Estimations were still reasonable.

Just because you're good at estimating your speed doesn't mean everyone else is. This is something that is pretty subjective. Some people would be fine driving around all day with no speedometer while others would probably be so nervous they shouldn't be driving on public roads.
Personally, I'd like to have it, but if it goes out for short periods of time I'd likely be fine with that. Other people will have different opinions, you can't keep telling someone their wrong when it is simply how they feel about something.

 

[arnis]

Just because you're good at estimating your speed doesn't mean everyone else is. This is something that is pretty subjective. Some people would be fine driving around all day with no speedometer while others would probably be so nervous they shouldn't be driving on public roads.
Personally, I'd like to have it, but if it goes out for short periods of time I'd likely be fine with that. Other people will have different opinions, you can't keep telling someone their wrong when it is simply how they feel about something.

Well, I've heard lots of comments from folks about Model 3 spy shots. Some say "nose looks weird and bad".
Even though, it is their opinion, there is nothing wrong nor bad with the nose (no grill). Just a habit to see the grill.
Well they have a feeling but I'm not discussing my feelings rather boring, clean, unemotional information.
If their personal opinion that is not a "question of taste" (like color or seat material) is incorrect, I would definitely mention that
as being incorrect. "I need speedo on a different display" is not a question of taste. It's the same as "there must be a grill in front of the car".

Personally, I would also have a speedo in my vehicle. I would take any feature for free, no questions asked