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What's the Ideal EV Battery Size?

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Doug_G, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Design News - Captain Hybrid - What's the Ideal EV Battery Size?

     
  2. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Top line Model S will have about 17x the battery capacity, and 23x the all electric range.
    Opposite ends of the spectrum. Since Plug-in-Prius will be able to plug in and drive some miles on "pure electricity" does that entitle it to be called an "EV"?
     
  3. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I had mixed feelings about the article, myself. It shows Toyota's mindset, which seems to be, "people don't care about driving electric; they just want to improve the fuel efficiency of their gas-powered car". I think they're missing the whole point of electric vehicles (IMHO), which is to minimize gasoline usage as much as possible -- if not eliminate it altogether.
     
  4. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    #4 roblab, Aug 30, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
    Absolutely not. EV should not be in the name at all. The chrome on the car says "HYBRID", and if they say anything about using electricity, they should also say something about gasoline, or if diesel, or if fuel cell. So it should be gas-electric HYBRID, or fuel cell-electric HYBRID. Or maybe gasoline-hamster hybrids if that's what they use.

    Way too much playing around with "EV", done purposely and deliberately to confuse the public and muddy the waters.
    Thank you CARB and GM, Ford, Chrysler, and other automakers.

    Just like the big deal about "V8" engines, or "Hemi" engines as synonymous with POWER, which doesn't necessarily follow.

    By the way, Wiki says that NO company is building a hemi engine these days because of weight (cams on both sides of the combustion chamber) and difficulty to meet air quality regulations, since they burn dirty. Some use two plugs (more complexity), so Dodge/Chrysler uses a weird multi ground sort-of hemi shape and calls it a "hemi" so John 6pack will think, "OOOooohh, POWER!

    Whereas a true EVer thinks "Tesla": "OOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooh!!!!! Power!!!!!!" That's the difference.
     
  5. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Some PiP (Plug-in Prius) battery info:
    Toyota’s First Production Lithium-Ion Drive Battery
    Prius PHV FAQ
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    EV range and cost-effectiveness: Chevy Volt versus Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid - Hybrid Cars and Plug-in Vehicles - Hybridcarblog
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Toyota's Approach To Electrification
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    And Tesla chargers $70 per mile on the model S, right?

    Commenter missnoitall has many unanswered where he is comparing burning to storing as if they are equal. This comment, "Exactly what other consumer device has 8,000 parts? " I have heard before on the radio. "Tesla has too many batteries so it will fail." I was trying to come up with similar consumer examples that dispute the complexity count assertion.
    LEDs in a television was my best.
     
  9. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #9 TEG, Aug 30, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
    The battery pack is somewhat "self healing". Individual cell failures don't take out the whole pack.
    On a TV you might notice a "bad pixel", but Tesla can "soldier on" even with some defective cells in a way you may not even notice.
     
  10. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    $10k for an extra 70 miles of range (jumping from 160 to 230, or 230 to 300)...that's about $143 per mile of range. Still a lot less than Toyota's $500, though.
     
  11. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Right. My 70 was off.
     
  12. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Christmas tree lights. One can go out, but the tree remains lit. A string of lights is ridiculously NOT complex.
     
  13. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    A 10lb bag of M&M's. I can drop one and have it roll under the refrigerator; but I can still eat the rest of the bag. Not complex at all, unless my wife finds me eating them.

    Wait. What was the question again?
     
  14. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #14 TEG, Aug 30, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
    Umm, there are different types. If each "bulb" is 120V, yeah. But most lights I have seen these days have strings of low voltage lights where one going out takes out a chain. In some cases it is the whole string, in others they might have dual lines (3 wires along) so that only half go off.

    http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/RADELECT/LITES/LITESFAQ.HTM
    How to fix Christmas tree lights in series? - Christmas lights | Ask MetaFilter
    But now, with LED bulbs available, they are so much longer lasting (and lower powered) that one need not worry much about a "burnt out bulb."
     
  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I should have been more precise. MY Christmas tree lights. When a single bulb goes out, the rest stay lit.

    :)
     
  16. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    The item has to be thousands of individual tech items. A house has thousands of nails but they don;y have the breakdown history of batteries.
    This was good TEG^^^
     
  17. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Critics of long-range EVs seem to keep pointing out that smaller batteries have shorter recharge times. That's of course not true, they just have less to charge. It is easier to give larger batteries a faster charging rate.
     
  18. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    Sizes will be different for EV's vs PHEV's !! Further discussion to go to another thread.
     
  19. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

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  20. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Yes, and not even mentioning that the operating costs with electricity are already much lower than with gas.

    (Even though there may be a certain number of drivers with a commute of usually even less than 13 miles. So that's not saying it would never make sense in individual cases.)
     

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