What's the latest on the $5k refund for Performance version buyers?

[Knightshade]

Oh and Elon did say all Performance 3 get track mode fwiw

Yup. Which contradicts what Tesla stated previously.

So one does wonder why.

Some options-

1) There was never any HW reason to restrict it and they originally said + only gets it to try and get more + buyers, but since + isn't more $ for them anymore no reason to make track mode exclusive.... and all Ps get full track mode (this is best option for all P owners)

2) They realized the standard brakes/wheels could handle track mode when initially they thought they couldn't (this is the next best possible reason for owners) and all Ps get full track mode.

3) They realized they couldn't practically/affordably offer a P3D- becomes a P3D+ option so limiting it to + cars would upset too many people... the downside here is maybe that means either track mode is watered down so - cars can use it- or that - cars get a "lesser" version of it to deal with the brakes/wheels on the car. This is obviously a crap outcome for everyone in the first case and for - owners in the second


1 and 2 also have the interesting implications that they could offer Track Mode as a paid option on AWD cars too since apart from the power unlock they're the same as P3D- cars anyway.

 

[MXWing]

Yup. Which contradicts what Tesla stated previously.

So one does wonder why.

Some options-

1) There was never any HW reason to restrict it and they originally said + only gets it to try and get more + buyers, but since + isn't more $ for them anymore no reason to make track mode exclusive.... and all Ps get full track mode (this is best option for all P owners)

2) They realized the standard brakes/wheels could handle track mode when initially they thought they couldn't (this is the next best possible reason for owners) and all Ps get full track mode.

3) They realized they couldn't practically/affordably offer a P3D- becomes a P3D+ option so limiting it to + cars would upset too many people... the downside here is maybe that means either track mode is watered down so - cars can use it- or that - cars get a "lesser" version of it to deal with the brakes/wheels on the car. This is obviously a crap outcome for everyone in the first case and for - owners in the second


1 and 2 also have the interesting implications that they could offer Track Mode as a paid option on AWD cars too since apart from the power unlock they're the same as P3D- cars anyway.

4.) I'll say fracking ANYTHING to get my wife off my ass and get some peace/quiet for however long I can put off some decision or honey-do action item. Could be Elon doing the same. Not like every tweet of his is codified law.

Tesla is all about production ramp right now, and probably spends 0 time on the issue. I think the can is kicked down the road indefinitely on how the whole thing will come together.

All I ask for is more aggressive regen options so if they can just implement that first as a next patch that would be great.

 

[salamagd]

Incorrect. I did not buy the PUP which had nothing to do with the price of it.

In that case, assuming you elected to not purchase the PUP for the reason that it contained option(s) you didn't want, then it would be fair to say that even if the PUP had been a $0-cost option at the time, you wouldn't have taken it. I think, if we're trying to figure out what refunds purchasers "deserve" here, then people in your situation deserve nothing - you got exactly the spec you wanted at the price you're happy with.

I agree with MXWing - I think that people not falling into Stacks' category above, the majority of P3D- owners that purchased the car without the PUP due to not perceiving the additional benefits as worth the cost, could be "deserving" of some refund, maybe a bit less than the full $5k - mind you, only in the context where P3D+ purchasers get a $5k refund. I think it would not be unreasonable of Tesla to not issue refunds at all, but it seems that they've started down the path so now they've got to come up with an official policy.

 

[MXWing]

In that case, assuming you elected to not purchase the PUP for the reason that it contained option(s) you didn't want, then it would be fair to say that even if the PUP had been a $0-cost option at the time, you wouldn't have taken it. I think, if we're trying to figure out what refunds purchasers "deserve" here, then people in your situation deserve nothing - you got exactly the spec you wanted at the price you're happy with.

I agree with MXWing - I think that people not falling into Stacks' category above, the majority of P3D- owners that purchased the car without the PUP due to not perceiving the additional benefits as worth the cost, could be "deserving" of some refund, maybe a bit less than the full $5k - mind you, only in the context where P3D+ purchasers get a $5k refund. I think it would not be unreasonable of Tesla to not issue refunds at all, but it seems that they've started down the path so now they've got to come up with an official policy.

I proposed somewhere Tesla should have a price protection guarantee and limit their pricing changes to small amounts. No more than $1,500 / 30 days limits both the financial liability to Tesla, gives assurances to buyers, and makes them feel less screwed after a drop when 30 days go by. Well.. it was only 1500 and not 5000 - 24 HOURS LATER - man that would burn.

We know contractually, Tesla doesn't owe anyone *sugar* - but you do have to maintain positive good will.

 

[MacGreiner]

Heck - I don't even need it as a cash refund, even a credit would work fine for me. Keep purchasers happy, less paperwork and tie them further into the brand.

 

[Lloyd]

I find it surprising that just because Tesla changed the pricing, people that have already taken delivery think that they are due a refund. I've bought many cars from conventional dealers where the price got lowered after my purchase. If I went back to the show room and asked for a refund they would have laughed me all the way back to the street!

 

[wbhokie]

Heck - I don't even need it as a cash refund, even a credit would work fine for me. Keep purchasers happy, less paperwork and tie them further into the brand.

IMO, this is what they should have done anyway.... a credit at least goes back into the company.

I also agree that Elon should have never mentioned a refund in the first place.

 

[Stacks]

You got exactly the spec you wanted at the price you're happy with.

So did you. Good argument.

The only people that weren’t happy with the price are people that took delivery after it decreased.

 

[salamagd]

So did you. Good argument.

The only people that weren’t happy with the price are people that took delivery after it decreased.

I think you might be confusing me for someone else! I don't own a Model 3 (yet), though I would if I didn't live in car-unfriendly Manhattan.

But agreed, purchasers that hadn't even taken delivery when the pricing change was announced do seem to be more deserving of some special treatment.

 

[Msjulie]

The only people that weren’t happy with the price are people that took delivery after it decreased.

I'm one that questions why anyone who took delivery thinks they should get anything but if Tesla (Elon) says they overpriced the car by 5k it is easy to read that as meaning the price for the software was too high by 5k since, as also claimed by Elon, you could buy that set of options from Tesla after the fact for 5k

That would mean that if Tesla wants to placate folks who are feeling unjustly treated it would be all the folks who paid 10/11k for software that Tesla (Elon) says is worth 5k

Since opinions, and justifications for same, are like buttholes on this, the only thing that matters is what Tesla (Elon) believes is the right thing.. and what I was told 3 times is that all Performance buyers with free unlimited super charging are eligible to give that up for 5k.. I'm gonna have to flipping request it just to find out the truth..

 

[Stacks]

P3D- owners that purchased the car without the PUP due to not perceiving the additional benefits as worth the cost, could be "deserving" of some refund, maybe a bit less than the full $5k - mind you, only in the context where P3D+ purchasers get a $5k refund.

This has got to be one of the most selfish statements.

You’re saying P3D+ owners should get $5k upgrades for free and P3D- should get those same upgrades for $2k or something.

Do you value the PUP at $5k or not? If yes, then give P3D- $5k back or give them PUP for free since you’re the one saying it’s worth $5k by demanding a $5k refund.

 

[Stacks]

I think you might be confusing me for someone else! I don't own a Model 3 (yet), though I would if I didn't live in car-unfriendly Manhattan.

It’s pretty obvious that I’m using the word “you” to mean P3D+ owners since you’re arguing on their behalf.

 

[wbhokie]

This is getting off topic. Keep it civil. what good does it do for us to argue with each other?

 

[salamagd]

It’s pretty obvious that I’m using the word “you” to mean P3D+ owners since you’re arguing on their behalf.

I think you've got your wires crossed, I don't even understand your argument! Bowing out of this one.

 

[TANGO SUKKA]

"Hello TANGO SUKKA,

Thank you for the confirmation. I have submitted the refund for $5,000 and the removal of your Free, Unlimited Supercharging. The check will be mailed to your physical address on file within the next 4 weeks. "


got this email yesterday.

 

[sjjanz]

So yea I was one of the folks who paid the $5k for the performance version a week before the Elon Tweet. And yea-- I feel REALLY screwed. I finally talked to my Owner/Advisor live today after 9 phone calls and roughly 20 emails (their response level is terrible). So there is nothing official from Tesla Corporate that they will refund $5k to those people who are in my position. According to my owner/advisor, Tesla is waiting to see how much of a stink people will really make about this before they decide what to offer-- if anything. I personally made a big one as our Tesla 3 is not our primary car and we also got Tesla Solar at the same time so our electrical expenses will not go up and we could not really give a *sugar* about unlimited supercharging (which we have). In talking with my Owner/Advisor a bit more, we did the math on the value of super-charging and based on Southern Cal Prices and the warranty on the battery it is about $8k. So, assuming this is in the ballpark I can see why Elon offered it up-- his net total is still a win for him on that car transaction. Now, I postulated that the unlimited super-charging might be worth more from a resale value as on the one hand, Telsa devalued my car by $5k and on the other hand there would be some market value to the car if free supercharging was included that might lower that $5k loss. However, I was informed by my owner/advisor that free unlimited supercharging is no long tracked by VIN and is now tracked by person. Further, if I get another Tesla, the free unlimited super-charging cannot be transferred. Thus, the free unlimited super-charging has no market value for us from a resale standpoint and we would gladly give it up for our $5k refund if that is ever offered.

 

[Maximilien]

Here is the economic response:

P3+ folks got screwed much harder.

The P+ folks laid out an extra 5000 in cash.

Some owners could have saved 5000 if they took delivery 24 hours later. 5000 in cash. Not a perceived 5000 but an actual 5000. CASH MONEY. What’s worse is that 5000 loss compounds forever so the opportunity cost over a long time is much worse than 5000.

P- folks missed out on 5000 in upgrades. Upgrades they did not value at 5000. We know this because they would have paid 5000 for it like the P+ buyers.

No ones car was actually devalued by 5000, that’s not how depreciation works.

However the P+ Buyers got devalued harder than the P- buyers because the MSRP is higher. The higher the MSRP the higher the devaluation.

And plus TAX. Don't forget that.

 

[OnTheSnap]

Luckily just bought my performance on Sunday. Just slipped past this

 

[stlmizzoufan]

Here is the economic response:

P3+ folks got screwed much harder.

The P+ folks laid out an extra 5000 in cash.

Some owners could have saved 5000 if they took delivery 24 hours later. 5000 in cash. Not a perceived 5000 but an actual 5000. CASH MONEY. What’s worse is that 5000 loss compounds forever so the opportunity cost over a long time is much worse than 5000.

P- folks missed out on 5000 in upgrades. Upgrades they did not value at 5000. We know this because they would have paid 5000 for it like the P+ buyers.

No ones car was actually devalued by 5000, that’s not how depreciation works.

However the P+ Buyers got devalued harder than the P- buyers because the MSRP is higher. The higher the MSRP the higher the devaluation.

I agree with almost everything you said, except for one thing. The fact that I did not purchase the PUP was not because I didn't value the package. I actually thought it was a decent value for what you were getting. I just didn't want to spend that and then have the additional expense of buying a separate set of tires for winter after already spending $5K on the package.

In my case, I ended up purchasing the P- and bought the 19" sport wheels and continental tires separately through Tesla (at an additional cost to me). They were shipped to the delivery center and they installed them that day before I drove off in my new vehicle even though I couldn't purchase this option directly through the website. Thus, my winter tire problem was solved.

If the PUP were free, I wouldn't have had a problem buying the additional set of winter tires.

And yes, I do feel that my vehicle was devalued somewhat. I'm not looking for a huge refund. It's just irritating.

 

[MXWing]

I agree with almost everything you said, except for one thing. The fact that I did not purchase the PUP was not because I didn't value the package. I actually thought it was a decent value for what you were getting. I just didn't want to spend that and then have the additional expense of buying a separate set of tires for winter after already spending $5K on the package.

I stand corrected. I think the more accurate way to phrase that is:

"It is a grey area for 3P- buyers because it is unknown how much they valued the PUP package. They opted out of the paid option when presented."

And yes, I do feel that my vehicle was devalued somewhat. I'm not looking for a huge refund. It's just irritating.

I practically swing off Elon's nuts and I was furious on how they handled this. My complaints are more towards how they do things, versus the decisions they actually make. I tweeted the following at Elon when he said some nonsense about FUSC being a supreme value.