Which charger do you recommend?

[jjrandorin]

Thanks! I think I got that, but I was rather wondering how is Tesla software able to compensate for the factors like the actual load of the vehicle (obviously if I drive alone it would be more energy-efficient than if I take 4 other people and their bags), or the driving conditions. These factors are probably not taken into account, so I assume it's always good to have some 10% safety margin when calculating the next charging location, or the distance remaining. So, is this kind of "safety margin" automatically included in the software, or should I always keep it in mind?

1. The software doesnt take load into account.
2. Take a look at that a better route planner website I linked earlier, it has more options
3. Take your referral code out of your signature, that isnt allowed on TMC (because virtually everyone here has one, and they dont want the site to devolve into referral code requests etc).

 

[Daniellane]

Thanks! I think I got that, but I was rather wondering how is Tesla software able to compensate for the factors like the actual load of the vehicle (obviously if I drive alone it would be more energy-efficient than if I take 4 other people and their bags), or the driving conditions. These factors are probably not taken into account, so I assume it's always good to have some 10% safety margin when calculating the next charging location, or the distance remaining. So, is this kind of "safety margin" automatically included in the software, or should I always keep it in mind?

It does account for hills... Most importantly it is aware of Supercharger availability. I recently experienced rerouting due to a Supercharger getting maintenance with reduced service. It actually increased my charging to skip it. At the time I didn’t realize what it was doing. I tried to reset my destination directly to that Supercharger and got a message that it was closed.
First time I ever experienced that (last month)

 

[drtimhill]

The Tesla adapter goes from J1772 to Tesla
The Amazon adapter goes from Tesla to J1772 (lets non-Teslas use a destination charger--maybe).

I admit I dislike the idea of those things. Tesla destination chargers are for Teslas .. funded in part by Tesla (that is, indirectly, all Tesla owners) .. not sure about non-Tesla owners leeching off the Tesla network like that.

 

[Daniellane]

I admit I dislike the idea of those things. Tesla destination chargers are for Teslas .. funded in part by Tesla (that is, indirectly, all Tesla owners) .. not sure about non-Tesla owners leeching off the Tesla network like that.

I doubt that it would work. I’ve heard of salvage Teslas and Accounts with invalid credit cards having Supercharger privileges being removed which suggests some sort handshaking takes place.

 

[drtimhill]

I doubt that it would work. I’ve heard of salvage Teslas and Accounts with invalid credit cards having Supercharger privileges being removed which suggests some sort handshaking takes place.

These are destination chargers, not superchargers.

 

[Daniellane]

These are destination chargers, not superchargers.

Ahhh!
Less of an issue since the host generally pays for the energy.

 

[F14Scott]

I admit I dislike the idea of those things. Tesla destination chargers are for Teslas .. funded in part by Tesla (that is, indirectly, all Tesla owners) .. not sure about non-Tesla owners leeching off the Tesla network like that.

I currently own a Model 3 AWD, and I will pick up my MINI Cooper SE this week. My garage holds two Gen 2 Tesla HPWCs on a 60 Amp breaker, wired together with the communication cable, so they will load share between the two cars when they each begin charging at 0100, each morning. I'm on a real-time, grid load/cost plan, and 0100 to 0500 has electricity that is so cheap it is almost free (and sometimes actually pays me to use juice). I'll need the Amazon adapter to feed the MINI.

As for the destination chargers, it will be nice to have more options for myself, especially given the MINI's ~125 mile range. Tesla destination connectors are owned and operated by the local establishments, themselves, and are put there to attract customers with electric cars. IMO, if a hotelier tells me it's OK to use his EVSE, then whatever I can adapt to my car is fair game.

 

[drtimhill]

View attachment 597622
I currently own a Model 3 AWD, and I will pick up my MINI Cooper SE this week. My garage holds two Gen 2 Tesla HPWCs on a 60 Amp breaker, wired together with the communication cable, so they will load share between the two cars when they each begin charging at 0100, each morning. I'm on a real-time, grid load/cost plan, and 0100 to 0500 has electricity that is so cheap it is almost free (and sometimes actually pays me to use juice). I'll need the Amazon adapter to feed the MINI.

As for the destination chargers, it will be nice to have more options for myself, especially given the MINI's ~125 mile range. Tesla destination connectors are owned and operated by the local establishments, themselves, and are put there to attract customers with electric cars. IMO, if a hotelier tells me it's OK to use his EVSE, then whatever I can adapt to my car is fair game.

Cool. I'll drop over to your house and plug my car into a handy outside 120V outlet to charge my car then. After all, it's all fair game!

 

[jerry33]

I admit I dislike the idea of those things. Tesla destination chargers are for Teslas .. funded in part by Tesla (that is, indirectly, all Tesla owners) .. not sure about non-Tesla owners leeching off the Tesla network like that.

The property owner pays for the electricity with destination chargers, so Tesla doesn't really lose anything. Those devices won't work with a Supercharger.

 

[F14Scott]

Cool. I'll drop over to your house and plug my car into a handy outside 120V outlet to charge my car then. After all, it's all fair game!

a) In your faulty analogy, you conveniently skipped the part about the hotelier saying it was OK.
2) My house has a 6' iron gate surrounding it, so good luck.
D) I'm on PlugShare, so anytime you're around downtown Houston, give me a buzz and you'll get up to 11.5kW. for free.

 

[drtimhill]

The property owner pays for the electricity with destination chargers, so Tesla doesn't really lose anything. Those devices won't work with a Supercharger.

Tesla (if I recall) donates the actual charger though, and I doubt would continue the program if they felt they were supplying chargers that ended up being used by competitors BEVs. Though there is some discussion they may add a fee for destination charging at some point, at which point the business model may change.

 

[F14Scott]

For those who object to non-Teslas using free Tesla destination chargers, do you feel the converse is true? Whole Foods, for instance, has free J-1772 chargers for their customers; other Tesla owners and I routinely charge there using the adapter supplied with the car.

 

[jerry33]

Tesla (if I recall) donates the actual charger though, and I doubt would continue the program if they felt they were supplying chargers that ended up being used by competitors BEVs. Though there is some discussion they may add a fee for destination charging at some point, at which point the business model may change.

Yes, Tesla donates them. I've yet to actually see one of them being used by a non-Tesla (they are much more likely to be ICEd).

 

[drtimhill]

a) In your faulty analogy, you conveniently skipped the part about the hotelier saying it was OK.
2) My house has a 6' iron gate surrounding it, so good luck.
D) I'm on PlugShare, so anytime you're around downtown Houston, give me a buzz and you'll get up to 11.5kW. for free.

Dont by silly, of course I skipped it. My point was that you were bending the rules (or, if not "rules", then certainly the spirit of the agreement) to suit your own personal convenience. What are you going to do next? Put a fake bandage around your leg so you can park in disabled parking spots?

 

[F14Scott]

Dont by silly, of course I skipped it. My point was that you were bending the rules (or, if not "rules", then certainly the spirit of the agreement) to suit your own personal convenience. What are you going to do next? Put a fake bandage around your leg so you can park in disabled parking spots?

I count an ad hominem, an ignoring the question, a moving the goalpost, and a straw man, all in one paragraph. That's got to be some kind of record.

 

[drtimhill]

I count an ad hominem, an ignoring the question, a moving the goalpost, and a straw man, all in one paragraph. That's got to be some kind of record.

And your reply was evading the issue ... we can all play rhetorical games.

The point is, Tesla destination chargers are there as a perk for Tesla drivers. Tesla supplies the charger for free, provides installation assistance and integrates the location of the charger into the car nav system. Tesla owners win by having access to many more charge locations. The charger provider wins by attracting (well-heeled) Tesla owners (via the nav system) to their location. Tesla wins by attracting more car buyers by allaying range anxiety better than the competition.

But that breaks down if others gain access to the chargers. Tesla are funding a charger network that no longer benefits their car sales. Tesla drivers discover the chargers are always occupied by non-Tesla cars. And charger providers are left between a rock and hard place: should they make non-Tesla drivers mad by refusing them access, or Tesla drivers mad when they discover a non-tesla car on the Tesla charger?

As for your point (in a separate reply) about flipping it to Tesla owners squatting on non-Tesla chargers. That's plain silly since those chargers are explicitly designed to support all BEVs, including Teslas. Now who is using dubious arguments?

 

[F14Scott]

And your reply was evading the issue ... we can all play rhetorical games.

The point is, Tesla destination chargers are there as a perk for Tesla drivers. Tesla supplies the charger for free, provides installation assistance and integrates the location of the charger into the car nav system. Tesla owners win by having access to many more charge locations. The charger provider wins by attracting (well-heeled) Tesla owners (via the nav system) to their location. Tesla wins by attracting more car buyers by allaying range anxiety better than the competition.

But that breaks down if others gain access to the chargers. Tesla are funding a charger network that no longer benefits their car sales. Tesla drivers discover the chargers are always occupied by non-Tesla cars. And charger providers are left between a rock and hard place: should they make non-Tesla drivers mad by refusing them access, or Tesla drivers mad when they discover a non-tesla car on the Tesla charger?

As for your point (in a separate reply) about flipping it to Tesla owners squatting on non-Tesla chargers. That's plain silly since those chargers are explicitly designed to support all BEVs, including Teslas. Now who is using dubious arguments?

That was a much better post. I agree with most of what you said. My exceptions:

I think it's a little hyperbolic to say non-Tesla owners will always be using the destination chargers. Most won't have the dongle. Those who do, like me, will hopefully be savvy enough to know to soak up just enough juice to get to the next DC charger and then clear out of the spot. Most destination chargers I've seen and visited were empty when I arrived.

On the J-1772 is specifically designed for all BEVs front, I would opine they were designed for BEVs with that standard, with the expectation that other standards' owners would adapt themselves to the J-1772. If that was not Elon's expectation for destination connectors and non-Teslas, it probably should have been. If he thought he could put free sources of power in a public (in the sense that hotels are public accommodations) parking lot and then expect the public to segregate themselves by manufacturer, he underestimated humans' (my) capacity to adapt available resources to their needs within (as you noted) the letter of the law.

Cheers!

 

[Gasaraki]

So, are you saying that charging with NEMA 14-50 alone is going to be slower than with the Tesla Wall Connect if they use the same wire and the same breaker in the electrical box?
I have absolutely no negative inclination toward Tesla Wall Connect, just trying to learn how the charging process works.
Also, for those of you interested: they extended the tax credit for the EV chargers till the end of this year, so it may actually be a good idea to use it: Alternative Fuels Data Center: Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Tax Credit

Yes. The Tesla wall charger is currently the fastest way to charge a Tesla currently. It can charge at 40A, 240V or 11Kw. All the other chargers or 14-50 plug charger (mobile charger) limits you to 32A. (You can go buy a gen 2 mobile charger that can give you faster charge speeds but it's $520)

I also have the Gen3 wall charger, by having it be connected to wifi, Tesla Energy support was able to remotely diagnose issues and push new firmware for it. I had the wall charger issue where is slowed way down after charging for 20 mins. They just sent me a new one after I was on the phone with them and did remote diagnostics with them. The Gen2, you'll be getting what your getting out of the box, no improvements.

The gen3 is rumored to have new features coming.

 

[Gasaraki]

This may be a bit off-topic in this thread, but I was actually wondering how the trip planning with Tesla works, so I opened their website and put in a sample trip to see the number of stops for recharging and the timing. Then I thought: okay, but based on what speed is their software calculating the range? What if I drive a bit faster, or if the temperature outside is going to be lower than normal? Is tesla's software able to compensate for these factors?
Have anybody here been forced to do an "emergency recharging" while not able to reach a public supercharger? I guess I need an explanation of what "no range anxiety" really means

Don't use the Tesla website. The in car system is the accurate one. That takes in to account elevation changes, and your energy usage over the last 30 miles to calculate the state of charge left. However, if the wind speed changes or temperature changes or weather changes it wouldn't know. However the estimate will just keep going down as you drive so you'll have enough warning. When that happens, just drive slower.

 

[Gasaraki]

Basically, Range Anxiety is fear you won’t make it to the next charging stop.
All you do is enter your final destination. The car will route you to the first Supercharging stop. It displays the minimum charging time necessary to reach the next stop. You will get an alert from the app on your phone that you are close to being charged enough to continue with your trip and again when it is ready with a reminder that you may have idle fees (1$/min with 5min grace) if you don’t move your car.
Our Tesla’s have a longer range than me, my wife and our dog. It’ s fantastic to park, plug in and walk away, get coffee, & use a restroom.
Just a mire relaxing journey. Easier on the body. A bit more time... We used to stop at gas stations for gas only. Starbucks for restrooms and rest areas for our dogs...
Here’s an example...
1,100 miles. SW Washington to Palm Desert, CA. We usually, but not always, do this trip with an overnight stop at a hotel with a supercharger in the parking lot, so that basically eliminates quite a bit of charging in route...
View attachment 597530
View attachment 597529

That works but as you can see from the pictures the Tesla system is wasting a lot of your time. My tip to everyone is to plot to the next supercharger, not plot the whole trip. There should be very little times where you have to spend more than 30 mins at a supercharger (unless it's full and you're sharing a charge).