-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Who Else Had ICE Ruined For Them?
- Thread starter AdamMacDon
- Start date
I've been jaded by my P3D. I couldn't imagine ever buying another ICE vehicle, let alone one that does 0-60 in 4+ seconds. The only thing I miss is the sound of a boxer engine...but extreme quiet + the whirring of dual electric motors is cool in its own right.
My wife is due for an upgrade from her Camry soon and we're already putting $ in the piggy bank for a Model Y. Personally Im looking forward to the day that Tesla takes up an interest in EV motorcycles and personal watercraft.
My wife is due for an upgrade from her Camry soon and we're already putting $ in the piggy bank for a Model Y. Personally Im looking forward to the day that Tesla takes up an interest in EV motorcycles and personal watercraft.
Last edited:
Totally ruined ICE for me. I loved all types ICE. I loved V8’s but didn’t own one because of how piggy they were on gas, but I still loved a big chugging V8. I love classic car shows. I loved different exhaust systems. Loved the Audi R8 and vetts.
Now they are all noisy, fume generating POS.
I was behind a WRX the other day, a car liked, what an absolute piece of junk now.
Oddly, I still like my V6 Jeep Summit. I hate the gas bill though. First few months after getting model 3, I hated my Jeep. But now after 9 months I’m ok with it again. I better recognize the strengths and weaknesses of each. But I’d love to replace it with an X though some day. If I’m gonna spend close to 100K on car. It needs a serious refresh (battery, reliability, modular design that model Y is getting). Model Y is to small. Must tow 5000 lbs.
Maybe if the Tesla pick up checks all the right boxes. We’ll see.
Oh, as much as I like the accel on my P3D-, acceleration is not a huge differentiation for me.
One huge disappointment though is how far out FSD probably is. I don’t think it will happen on HW3. Needs rear radar/side radar and probably long range forward camera to pull it off
Now they are all noisy, fume generating POS.
I was behind a WRX the other day, a car liked, what an absolute piece of junk now.
Oddly, I still like my V6 Jeep Summit. I hate the gas bill though. First few months after getting model 3, I hated my Jeep. But now after 9 months I’m ok with it again. I better recognize the strengths and weaknesses of each. But I’d love to replace it with an X though some day. If I’m gonna spend close to 100K on car. It needs a serious refresh (battery, reliability, modular design that model Y is getting). Model Y is to small. Must tow 5000 lbs.
Maybe if the Tesla pick up checks all the right boxes. We’ll see.
Oh, as much as I like the accel on my P3D-, acceleration is not a huge differentiation for me.
One huge disappointment though is how far out FSD probably is. I don’t think it will happen on HW3. Needs rear radar/side radar and probably long range forward camera to pull it off
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
My two Ducati motorcycles with the glorious-sounding 996 90 degree-V-twin engines (one with carbon fiber exhaust) ruined cars for me. The intoxicating exhaust note at 7,000-10,000 rpms, the slick-shifting 6-speed transmission, the high power/weight ratio, the precise corner tip-in, the balanced handling under throttle or brake just made all other cars seem gutless, boring and pedestrian. And I knew I didn't want an impractical gas-guzzling Italian supercar that had $6,000 service bills. I serviced my Ducatis entirely in my own motorcycle shop and they returned 35-40 mpg under typical usage. They needed major service every 12,000 miles (desmodromic valve adjustment, new cam belts, oil and filters, brakes, etc.) and minor service every 6,000 miles (valves, oil, filters, tires).
Now the Teslas have ruined my Ducati motorcycles! I actually prefer the slight hum/whine of the electric motors to the exhaust note of one of the best sounding engines ever made! I learned that I liked the exhaust sound because it was associated with power (acceleration) - like the classical conditioning of Pavlov's dog:
Classical conditioning - Wikipedia
I would metaphorically "salivate" at the sound of that exhaust note because I associated it with the rush of intoxicating power. Now that I've learned intoxicating power doesn't require loud engine noises, I find the sound slightly irritating, something to be tolerated, not looked up to. Since buying the Teslas, I associate the slight hum/whine with intoxicating power. And intoxicating power under near silence is far better. Now I can hear what my individual tires are doing when pushed hard.
It's funny, we don't know what we don't know - until we know it! I always thought I liked the exhaust note because it sounded good. Now I realize I only liked it because of what it could do! I will never rave about the wonderful exhaust note of a desmodromic 90-degree-V-twin again!
I'm reminded of the transition to HDTV. I used to push my family to watch the HD versions of shows when possible, even if it was a bit more work and patience to do it. I always got complaints that it didn't look that much better, let's just watch the easier standard definition stuff. We finally got more and more HD shows to watch. After a while if we had to watch a standard definition show I was getting "What's wrong with this picture? It looks terrible!" comments. So SD was just fine, until you got used to HD. Then SD sucked. So do ICE cars.
It’s really amazing. I’ve owned my X just over a week and my perspective on ICE vehicles has changed dramatically. I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s, love the big V-8’s, but now they seem like antiquated curiosities. If Tesla’s PU has at least a 6’ bed, I’ll be ICE free for the rest of my life. Never experienced such a change. Amazing vehicles.
I have an e39 M5 in my garage that I never take out anymore , but I would augment my 3 with a more old school analog sports car. A 3 and an air cooled 911 would be an ideal garage.
, but I would augment my 3 with a more old school analog sports car. A 3 and an air cooled 911 would be an ideal garage.My ICE cars (300HP and 340HP turbo six) feel sluggish when driving legally compared to the Tesla. Above 90mph, my P3 starts to lose its advantage- that’s when a turbo six starts to outperform the single gear Tesla.
But I virtually never drive at illegal speeds and below 70mph the Tesla outclasses every ICE I ever experienced.
But I virtually never drive at illegal speeds and below 70mph the Tesla outclasses every ICE I ever experienced.
I think we all agree that these EVs are a quantum leap in driving dynamics, etc. One test drive and you are hooked. I just wonder why Tesla doesn't move to more traditional advertising and a dealer network. I assume it is simply because they wouldn't be able to meet demand if they did. Most of the general public still has no idea how good these Tesla vehicles are.
Last I heard they were still production limited to about 7000 units per week. Once the Model Y and Pickup are out, it is going to get crazier than ever and Tesla will need a lot more service centers. I mean with a car this great why not show it off and have nice dealerships instead of these little places in strips malls. With 96,000 cars sold last quarter, it is time. Mazda only sells like 300,000 vehicles a year and they manage to have dealerships.
Last I heard they were still production limited to about 7000 units per week. Once the Model Y and Pickup are out, it is going to get crazier than ever and Tesla will need a lot more service centers. I mean with a car this great why not show it off and have nice dealerships instead of these little places in strips malls. With 96,000 cars sold last quarter, it is time. Mazda only sells like 300,000 vehicles a year and they manage to have dealerships.
If by "dealership" you mean traditional dealership model, I am super glad they dont have that. I am very familiar with negotiating on cars etc, but it was very nice to not have to do any of that. All of that stuff generates overhead that must be priced into the car. If these cars do require "less" maintenance / repairs as many respect, a traditional dealership model would not even be able to sustain itself.
Couple that with the fact that "younger people" in general want to buy things online, and there is less and less value to the "sales experience" (if one ever found value in it in the first place). Building a bunch of physical buildings (or passing that off to a dealership owner who would need to price the cars in a manner to make money off that) is a losing proposition.
In fact, other manufacturers would love a more "streamlined" model that doesnt have all of the inherent back and forth built into it... thats what people who want to buy cars now want. All of these expensive buildings are going to end up costing traditional car dealers a TON... and are going to end up as relics....
(personal opinion only)
Don't get me wrong I agree with what you are saying but I also think this buying model restricts sales as well. I dislike the traditional stealership experience just as much as anyone else. However, there is a large part of the market that is not familiar, comfortable, etc. with buying online like this. In addition, the idea of having a small service center, possibly far away just doesn't sit well with a lot of people. Mobile Service is awesome, but they should advertise it to draw in more buyers.
When I show people my car, most of them find it a mystery and I spend a lot of the time demystifying the buying process, financing, leasing, the charging process, the battery life, the way the software controls stuff on the screen, the software updates, etc. The sales force is essentially us owners. If Tesla did some more traditional advertising and built more sales centers they would sell more vehicles. I see these Telsa stores in the mall. They can barely fit two cars in store front space. What happens when they have a Model Y and P soon? They need real sales centers in addition to online purchasing. Just my opinion since at this point it seems like their sales plan is to just keep reducing prices each quarter.
Last edited:
groovidad
Living the Dream!
Yeah, this works in San Diego/California. In Dallas/Texas, Tesla’s current process is not competitive for the mass market. You have to buy sight unseen and prepay 100% (by sending payment out of state) either cash or through a bank that can deal with Tesla (several won’t) and after Tesla has your money, you need to wait several days before you can even see your actual car the first time. They also won’t show it to you until you signed the delivery paperwork at the service center.
Compare that with a Porsche/BMW/Audi/Mercedes dealership that roll out the red carpet (some literally) and have zero hassle financing options. When I bought my Macan, I had a great experience at the Porsche dealership. A million times better than the awkward situation trying to get ahold of a total stranger at Tesla in Las Vegas and ACH’ing tens of thousands of $$$ to Tesla into a potentially black communications hole.
groovidad
Living the Dream!
Recall that Elon “does not” want Tesla to be a “car company”. His vision was to “seriously” kick start the EV revolution. He has done that. There is value and merit to continue to do so. I’m sure he is fully aware that Tesla EV auto manufacturing will be overtaken in the next decade. Tesla offers their proprietary “blue prints” to the public. You only have to look at all the ICE Manufacturers talking of releasing EV’s within the next 2 years. Mission accomplished! If Tesla continues it’s current sales strategy, I believe they will continue to sell their product globally to those that do their research and make an educated commitment. I’m ecstatic with my 3, aren’t you?
Last edited:
Yeah, you guys in states where tesla is not allowed to sell cars because the dealership lobby is too strong there have it really rough (not making a joke honest opinion). Most of the things you describe there are because tesla can not legally sell cars in texas and a few other states.
THAT is a travesty, I feel for you guys and have mad respect for those of you who live in states that dont allow sales but still decided to follow through on buying a tesla.
I think my P3 is the best car I ever had (and I’m no spring chicken anymore).
I wonder why the idea of being the a great car company is such a bad goal though? It kind of reminds me of Apple. Did Apple say let us show the world how a cell phone should really work and stop? No, they sold a bazillion iPhones, built a huge ecosystem with iTunes and 3rd party apps and changed the market.
If GM or Toyota were to ever acquire Tesla then they could just squash it and slow the "revolution". Tesla really needs that Model Y and P to take the disruption to the next level. Go Telsa go!
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I'm glad Tesla broke away from the stealership business model. I don't know anyone who likes them. And the reason they did was entirely for cost efficiencies. Tesla's mission statement is to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy and transport. When Tesla was founded, and when they released their first EV, the Roadster, EV's were much more expensive than comparable gas cars. The only reason Musk and team decided to start an EV company was that they understood the declining cost curve of batteries and solid-state motor controllers. It was only a matter of time before EV's were cost competitive and they wanted to be there ready to fulfil market demand in order to accelerate the transition. It's critical for our planet. And the best way to do this as soon as possible is to eliminate every possible inefficiency (so EV's could become cost-competitive ASAP).
Yes, a dealer network is inefficient. They borrow money to purchase the cars from the manufacturer then they let them sit out in the weather while they try to sell them. They hire car salespeople who are more concerned with the size of their sales commissions than your best interests, no one likes them. Then, to pay for the millions of dollars they have borrowed to create a huge lot (property taxes) full of metal, gas and oil, they try to sell you unnecessary and over-priced warranties, undercoating, paint protection, etc. Because they want to make a profit so the owner of the dealership can be the local big-whig and send his kids to an expensive business school where they can learn how to make as much money as possible on every sale. It's an out-dated business model that predates the Internet. By reducing the price of EV's, they can be adopted sooner by more people.
I sold my Mazda after getting my Stealth P3D. I had never done business with the local Mazda dealer (although it was part of the same family-owned dealership conglomerate that owns most of the dealerships in my region). The conglomerate "auto group" sells the vast majority of the cars in my area. But I thought I would give them a try because I have two cars, a truck and four motorcycles. I maintain my motorcycles myself and didn't really like the idea of servicing my cars and truck as well. I dropped my Mazda off for its second service at 15,000 miles (the first service was free, included in the sale of the new car) and asked them to perform the 15,000-mile service. I knew from reading the Owner's Manual this only included oil, oil filter and a few simple checks of things like the function of lights, seatbelts and brakes. The air filter wasn't even scheduled until 30,000 and we live in one of the least dusty areas of the country. I was about to leave when I thought to inquire about the cost. I was floored when he started to tell me all the things it needed and that it would be over $600! I told him I just wanted the factory recommended service performed. He started to berate me for not wanting to treat my car properly etc. but ended by telling me they could just do the minimum if that's all I wanted! It was still going to be $90 for an oil change and simple checks. I endured 5 minutes of him treating me like a terrible person before I got him to that point. How gullible to they think I am? I never went back again.
This kind of experience is not uncommon at car dealerships. My brother-in-law is part owner of a large Volvo dealership in another area and they would never do that scam. But the way they base the mechanics pay on their "efficiency" ensures a sub-optimal service. They get paid for the volume of work they are able to do and I've seen first hand how this is not in the customer's best interest. But this is common these days across most dealerships. And the salespeople are commissioned. The worse deal you get, the more they make. Nobody likes car salesmen. They might not be as bad as when they wore polyester suits but they still drip slime. Sure, there are some good salespeople but they are the exception, not the rule.
Even when you think you are getting good service and they kiss your butt all nice, you are still getting a bad value at most car dealerships. That's because the price of the car and the servicing has to cover their very high overhead. Tesla is constantly adding modern, new service centers and mobile service vans as their production grows so it's not clear why you yearn for the old, inefficient ways of doing things. Because the customer has to pay for all those inefficiencies, commissions and profits.
