Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Why AP 2.0 Won't Be Here Soon, and It Won't Be What You Think It Is

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I understand the "your car will always be obsolete, don't wait" argument. Everyone has their own personal situation. I have already waited almost 2 years, and there is a lot of noise that indicates a significant upgrade is coming soon. If I missed out on Autopilot 1.0 hardware, I would be trading my car in and taking a big depreciation hit - I don't want that to happen with my current order.

But are you hearing what you're saying? You've *already* waited two years. Two years you haven't been enjoying a Tesla that you could have. If you bought two years ago, you'd certainly not have a car with AP at all (like a lot of us do), but you'd be enjoying driving the best damn car on the planet. There's definitely value there! And if you did buy two years ago, you'd either trade that in for an AP 1.0 car last year, or still have it and drive it until you can trade it in on an AP 2.0 car when it's actually released. And at that point, the depreciation would be minimal... but at least you'd still be in a Tesla while you're waiting for AP 2.0 to be released and not playing this "waiting for the next best thing" game.

I have a non-AP 2013 P85+ which I love to death. Do I care it doesn't have any AP? Not really. But would I trade driving that car for the last 3 years for the chance to get and AP 2.0 car sometime in the next 6 months? No freaking way. And in my opinion, it's going to be more than 6 months before we start seeing AP 2.0 hardware released.

I guess what I'm saying is, if AP 2.0 is that important, I wouldn't be trying to time it ahead of time to get it as soon as it's released.. you won't win that game. Just order it when it's out and you'll get what you want. But at that point, there will be something else "right around the corner".
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Canuck
We know for certain that Tesla are developing "Tesla Vision", a replacement to Mobileye. What incentive would they have for not deploying that as soon as possible to new builds? What functionality do they get from Mobileye?

1) Detect the lane markings
2) AEB for pedestrians/other cars
3) Reading speed limits

I think that it's only actually (1) that is the bit on the critical path. The AEB now involves radar with the V8 update, and I can imagine Tesla releasing Autopilot 2.0 without (3) being in place, promising it will be there in a future update.

Autopilot 2.0 "just" (1) to be done I think. They've already determined what cameras and other sensors to use, and just need to wang them in the car. They'll put in a CPU that has plenty of capability for future improvements to Tesla Vision and the radar.

I understand the "your car will always be obsolete, don't wait" argument. Everyone has their own personal situation. I have already waited almost 2 years, and there is a lot of noise that indicates a significant upgrade is coming soon. If I missed out on Autopilot 1.0 hardware, I would be trading my car in and taking a big depreciation hit - I don't want that to happen with my current order.
I understand but once AP2 out I will wait for the soon to be released AP3
 
But are you hearing what you're saying? You've *already* waited two years. Two years you haven't been enjoying a Tesla that you could have.

I've actually been waiting for an X - although this is the S section of the forum I figured it was the most relevant thread. No RHD VINs have been assigned yet, so the earliest I could get my car is around end of Nov. So question for me is if there's evidence pointing to new hardware v. soon (and there's quite a bit of evidence mounting) do I delay until then.
 
It could be a while for new hardware. I could see a case for releasing it soon due to the Mobile Eye thing, but I can also see a case for a big delay due to it as well as they make sure everything plays nice with their own Tesla camera. No one outside of a few people at Tesla know for sure. Stuff that from the outside that extremely logically seem to point to new hardware being imminent might look very different with more real knowledge, which all of us lack.

Basically, do what you want. If only autopilot 2.0 will make you happy, then I suggest you stop trying to time it and just wait for the official release. That way you'll know for sure.
 
I've actually been waiting for an X - although this is the S section of the forum I figured it was the most relevant thread. No RHD VINs have been assigned yet, so the earliest I could get my car is around end of Nov. So question for me is if there's evidence pointing to new hardware v. soon (and there's quite a bit of evidence mounting) do I delay until then.

Ok that changes it a little bit..sorry. I also don't think there is *any* evidence pointing to new hardware, just speculation upon speculation that AP hardware upgrade is imminent. But that's pretty common around these parts.

But I sure can't wait for the 110kWh packs to be released next year. I'd sure hate to take delivery of the already outdated measely 100 kWh pack. ;)
 
Ok that changes it a little bit..sorry. I also don't think there is *any* evidence pointing to new hardware, just speculation upon speculation that AP hardware upgrade is imminent. But that's pretty common around these parts.

But I sure can't wait for the 110kWh packs to be released next year. I'd sure hate to take delivery of the already outdated measely 100 kWh pack. ;)
Side note: Elon tweeted yesterday that the 100 kWh pack is probably as big as it will get so you won't have to worry about that 110 kWh anymore. ;)
 
  • Funny
Reactions: davidc18
I also don't think there is *any* evidence pointing to new hardware, just speculation upon speculation that AP hardware upgrade is imminent.

Am I right in recalling that there is supposed to be a Model 3 reveal Part 2 at some point, and when Part 1 occurred the consensus was that Part 2 would happen at about the end of this year? I expect that it's likely the AP hardware capabilities of Model 3 will be made clear at Part 2 of the reveal (it would be hard not to) and that will tell us a lot about the future AP hardware for the Models S and X, since those should be getting capabilities at least as good as of the date the M3 ships. And since that fact will be clear to everyone, Tesla would have to actually be shipping the new hardware for the S and X as of the M3 Part 2 reveal in order not to Osborne their current S and X sales.

So either 1) new AP hardware for the S & X is coming by year end or 2) the M3 reveal Part 2 will be pushed back. And I doubt that they would push it too far back for fear of making people think the M3 is late, which would be bad for the stock and raising capital.

So if I were trying to time getting a MS or MX I would wait to see what happens with the M3 reveal Part 2.
 
Side note: Elon tweeted yesterday that the 100 kWh pack is probably as big as it will get so you won't have to worry about that 110 kWh anymore. ;)

Oh yes I'm aware of that... But as other people pointed out, as the Gigafactory comes online and starts to produce better efficiency (and less expensive) cells, I could see MS and MX going higher than 100kWh down the road (but not really soon). I think Elon was just saying that they're going to stop pushing for and spending limited resources on higher kWh using their current technology. And I agree with him there.. 100 kWh is basically enough for most people (but obviously not all people).

Am I right in recalling that there is supposed to be a Model 3 reveal Part 2 at some point, and when Part 1 occurred the consensus was that Part 2 would happen at about the end of this year? I expect that it's likely the AP hardware capabilities of Model 3 will be made clear at Part 2 of the reveal (it would be hard not to) and that will tell us a lot about the future AP hardware for the Models S and X, since those should be getting capabilities at least as good as of the date the M3 ships. And since that fact will be clear to everyone, Tesla would have to actually be shipping the new hardware for the S and X as of the M3 Part 2 reveal in order not to Osborne their current S and X sales.

So either 1) new AP hardware for the S & X is coming by year end or 2) the M3 reveal Part 2 will be pushed back. And I doubt that they would push it too far back for fear of making people think the M3 is late, which would be bad for the stock and raising capital.

So if I were trying to time getting a MS or MX I would wait to see what happens with the M3 reveal Part 2.

Wow, that's some First Class speculation there, well done! Except for the part where Elon said that they may use the MS/MX to test new technologies first (which, BTW doesn't mean it will ALWAYS happen that way)... everything else you mention is complete and total speculation by non-Tesla people. Even "consensus" is the same as "speculation." I was at the M3 reveal, and today is the first day I've heard this business about the "consensus" about Part 2 reveal being before the end of this year. The only reason that even came about was because "the next reveal event" was added as a prize for the latest referral program which ends Oct 15th... so people are saying "oooooh... that mean there WILL BE another 'reveal' event SOOOON!!!!! OOHHH.. THAT MEANS IT HAS TO BE THE MODEL 3 PART 2 REVEAL -- THIS YEAR!!! YAY!!!". In reality the "next reveal" event could be a new powerwall or SolarCity product, or really anything else. That doesn't mean it will be the Model 3 reveal or that it will even happen this year.

I'll just say what I said before, if you want to try and time a pending order to get AP 2.0 hardware before it's officially announced (or observed in the wild pre-release, like AP 1.0 was), I think you will lose that game. You can speculate and theorize all you want (heck, it's your money after all!)... but in the end, nobody really knows *anything* about Tesla's plans about the next hardware version of AP.. (I sure don't, and I'm not speculating either) so to try and read the crystal ball and Ouija board to divine that information will end up with information as useful as, well a crystal ball or Ouija board. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: davidc18
Musk was asked at the ReCode conference in June if the Model 3 would be autonomous, to which he responded:

Musk -- "I'm going to do another Tesla event, maybe at the end of the year, and talk more about that."
Mossberg -- "Well, you could start here."
Musk -- "It'll be real big news if I start here. Let me just say that we're going to do the obvious thing. It's really obvious."

39m 35s in the video

This doesn't necessarily mean the Model 3 reveal will be at the end of the year, but he was at least implying there would be an Autopilot event at the end of the year, answered within the context of a Model 3 question.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Turing and Troy
Musk was asked at the ReCode conference in June if the Model 3 would be autonomous, to which he responded:

Musk -- "I'm going to do another Tesla event, maybe at the end of the year, and talk more about that."
Mossberg -- "Well, you could start here."
Musk -- "It'll be real big news if I start here. Let me just say that we're going to do the obvious thing. It's really obvious."

39m 35s in the video

This doesn't necessarily mean the Model 3 reveal will be at the end of the year, but he was at least implying there would be an Autopilot event at the end of the year, answered within the context of a Model 3 question.

Yup. "Maybe at the end of the year" - and in Elon time. That seems more likely to be March. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: HankLloydRight
"Not current" is not synonymous with "obsolete". I think the word "obsolete" gets thrown around with abandon here. Something is
only obsolete if it is no longer reasonably well-suited to its purpose. That seems like an absurd claim to make about a six-month-old
Tesla -- or even a two-year-old Tesla.
Yes... our 2+ year old P85 is far from obsolete--it's still great. Sure it is no longer the fastest model by a lot, and yes it doesn't have AP, but it's wonderful to drive. Obsolete is such a misused word.
 
Does this guy know something we don't:

Self-Driving Cars Coming In Months, Not Years

Interesting. My car comes in 10 days (already built). This new new comes out I'm kissing $10-15,000 goodbye and upgrading. Hopefully the $15,000 in tax credits (2x $7500) that would come in April 2017 will offset in full the up front cash depreciation and my monthly payment for all intensive purposes will be the same. I'm ok with that decision.
 
Interesting. My car comes in 10 days (already built). This new new comes out I'm kissing $10-15,000 goodbye and upgrading. Hopefully the $15,000 in tax credits (2x $7500) that would come in April 2017 will offset in full the up front cash depreciation and my monthly payment for all intensive purposes will be the same. I'm ok with that decision.
Esp where he says "Now he’s promising Teslas will get to Level 3 autonomous driving and key components are being fitted to cars in production right now"

Still think if this were true we'd see new hardware (2nd camera) in the wild by now. But to date, nothing has been seen which probably makes this thread title true...
 
Still think if this were true we'd see new hardware (2nd camera) in the wild by now.


ap-2-action-3-e1471099230392.png