Why are we always being overcharged

[Brian's ReX]

Since all the road wear seems to be contributed to a combination of weight/miles... shouldn't the road tax be calculated on those factors?

I have always felt the us (BEV's) have been getting quite the benefit of ICE taxes, it's our duty as American tax payers to help fund the costs of road maintenance.

I, for one, would not be opposed to paying some sort of subsidy. After all, I'm using the same roads as everyone else. Why should I get a break because I don't have to pay for gas/petrol?

I know this will be an unpopular stance... but I firmly believe that we should pay for the public domain... however we choose to use it.

 

[RickW]

I feel your pain. I'm in the process of buying a M3D and I'm finding out that almost all of the gas savings is being doled out to the insurance company as they want to jack up my insurance by $1100 per year !!!

 

[r1200gs4ok]

So I recently moved to South Carolina and was looking into the ad valorem tax, I probably should have researched before hand, my Tesla is going to cost $120 in registration for road fees! Why
Our cars do less damage to the roads compared to ICE leaking oil and who knows what else on to the roads. Why are they $40 to register competed to my Tess. To ad to it a friend of who also has a M3 got a letter from GA stating he own an alternative fuel tax which was $212! Why? Why are we always being charged extra for a clean less road destroying vehicle?

lost gas tax revenue

 

[cOoTeR]

In AZ your yearly registration is based on the state's assessed value of your car. Luckily electric vehicles are charged less and can use the carpool lanes even if there is only one occupant in the vehicle.

 

[JasonR67]

I feel your pain. I'm in the process of buying a M3D and I'm finding out that almost all of the gas savings is being doled out to the insurance company as they want to jack up my insurance by $1100 per year !!!

Shop around. Huge discrepancy in insurance rates across providers.

 

[Stanwood Steve]

I just renewed the tabs on my Model 3 in Washington State and paid an additional $225, so my tabs cost just over $300 to renew. I was a bit surprised it was that high, but I was even more surprised when I received my tab renewal for my 2012 Prius V. Those included a new additional tax of $75 for high mileage vehicles. I agree that I should help pay for road maintenance and repair but at the same time feel these values seem on the high side. I suppose the right answer is a "use tax" that is charged by annual miles driven, but I understand that can be costly to employ plus other issues regarding government oversight and surveillance. In the meantime, I just paid for the tabs and consider it the price of driving in Washington state.

 

[artsci]

Since all the road wear seems to be contributed to a combination of weight/miles... shouldn't the road tax be calculated on those factors?

I have always felt the us (BEV's) have been getting quite the benefit of ICE taxes, it's our duty as American tax payers to help fund the costs of road maintenance.

I, for one, would not be opposed to paying some sort of subsidy. After all, I'm using the same roads as everyone else. Why should I get a break because I don't have to pay for gas/petrol?

I know this will be an unpopular stance... but I firmly believe that we should pay for the public domain... however we choose to use it.

I completely agree. We use the roads and we should help pay for them. Quibbling over what we pay just arms the critics who claim that electric car owners are wealthy elitists.

 

[brur]

More like 10,000 miles these days. I was making a joke about OPs claim that only ICE vehicles can leak oil on to the road. Teslas have all the same fluids as ICE vehicles (except gasoline of course!).
It does seem silly to tax EVs for road use and then also subsidize them with tax credits.

yes, you nailed it, that is politics in action. The appearance (at first blush) of supporting or dissuading while all the while pulling in on the other side as well. If they weren't so diabolical they'd be admired.

 

[SalisburySam]

Yeah, yeah, the party line is that EV’s don’t pay gasoline taxes so their fair share of road use is in registration fees. I agree...to a point. North Carolina charges a flat $130 for EV’s every registration, a far higher amount than if I paid gasoline taxes for the same amount of mileage. A second point is property tax. Again in NC we pay annually at registration a vehicle property tax. To renew my Model 3 registration cost almost $1000 this July.

OTOH, oh wait, there isn’t another hand.

 

[Knightshade]

Yeah, yeah, the party line is that EV’s don’t pay gasoline taxes so their fair share of road use is in registration fees. I agree...to a point. North Carolina charges a flat $130 for EV’s every registration, a far higher amount than if I paid gasoline taxes for the same amount of mileage.

I'm also in NC, and that's absolutely not true unless you drive a much lower than average number of miles.

NC gas tax is 35.4 cents per gallon. So to pay $130.01 in fuel taxes (higher than the EV tax) you need to buy ~367 gallons of gasoline.

The average new car gets about 25 mpg.

So 367*25= 9.175 miles driven.

Which is thousands of miles below the average # driven by year by NC drivers.

In fact the average NC driver does 15,729 miles a year per here-
Average Miles Driven Per Year - Car Mileage By State and Age Group

Meaning at 25 mpg they buy 629.16 gallons of gasoline. Paying 35.4 cents per gallon in fuel tax. A total of $222.72 in fuel taxes paid per year.

Which is almost double the $130 EV tax.



The property tax you mention is based on the value of the car- being an EV or not has nothing to do with that so not sure why you even brought it up... it'll go down annually as the car depreciates.

 

[NDD27587]

The property tax you mention is based on the value of the car- being an EV or not has nothing to do with that so not sure why you even brought it up... it'll go down annually as the car depreciates.

While this may be true. I just received my property tax notice and they put an appraised value of $71,100 on my Model 3 Performance. That's about $8000 more than what I can purchase a new one for, let alone a used one with 15,000 miles. I'd say they are at least off by $15,000 or more. So, they are definitely doing everything they can to extract extra from EV owners imho.

As for the gas tax. Sure, they don't get that from me. But they do get taxes on the electricity I used to power my car.

 

[StellarRat]

While this may be true. I just received my property tax notice and they put an appraised value of $71,100 on my Model 3 Performance. That's about $8000 more than what I can purchase a new one for, let alone a used one with 15,000 miles. I'd say they are at least off by $15,000 or more. So, they are definitely doing everything they can to extract extra from EV owners imho.

As for the gas tax. Sure, they don't get that from me. But they do get taxes on the electricity I used to power my car.

You can't dispute the appraised value? We can do that on our property taxes here and luckily only businesses have to pay property tax on personal property in Oregon. Plainly, your car is only worth at most the new cost of the same model new since it no more features than the new year model. You can get a performance now for under $60K if I remember right.

 

[Knightshade]

While this may be true. I just received my property tax notice and they put an appraised value of $71,100 on my Model 3 Performance. That's about $8000 more than what I can purchase a new one for, let alone a used one with 15,000 miles. I'd say they are at least off by $15,000 or more. So, they are definitely doing everything they can to extract extra from EV owners imho.

Again this is nonsensical.

If another car maker dropped the price on an ICE vehicle 20k you'd be in the same situation, so again there's nothing specific to EVs going on here in some nefarious effort to "get" extra from EV owners.

Typically the state just takes whatever you paid originally and applies some depreciation factor year over year to that cost.

You're perfectly free to appeal the tax value though through your county tax office, showing them the Tesla price cuts and suggesting the appraised value is no longer accurate.

As for the gas tax. Sure, they don't get that from me. But they do get taxes on the electricity I used to power my car.

Sure but that should be a lot less than you'd otherwise pay in gas taxes on an ICE vehicle.

For example it's around $2 per 300 miles for my Model 3 based just on the kwh rate... Sales tax on electricity is I think 7%, so that'd be 14 cents of tax paid per 300 miles of range.

Versus the gasoline tax in NC of 35.4 cents for one gallon... which in a 25MPG car (roughly national average) means you pay ~$4.25 per 300 miles of range in gas taxes.

Over 13,746 miles in a year (national average) that means I'd pay $6.41 cents...total... per year in electric tax to drive.

Versus an ICE car that'd pay roughly $194.74 in gasoline tax for those same 13,746 miles.

(plus of course the ICE guy is paying a TON more in actual gasoline cost versus my electric cost)

 

[ReddyLeaf]

The real reason is that the oil plutocracy owns your government.
More States Hitting Electric Vehicle Owners With High Fees, a Consumer Reports Analysis Shows

 

[brur]

red, think you might have jumped the shark there.

 

[Brian's ReX]

Not to mention that the tax on gasoline is intended to go to maintaining our roadways. Not sure about tax on electricity... but I highly doubt it goes directly to road maintenance. More than likely goes into the General Fund, or to maintaining the power company's public right-of-way.

So the tax we pay on electricity doesn't benefit the roads... so it's a non-starter.

Interesting that the article listed states that BEV's will likely pay more towards infrastructure costs than ICE vehicles because they weigh more, and therefore "exact a greater structural toll on roads than equivalent" ICE vehicles.

An interesting argument. Given that stance... should we (BEV's) get some break due to the lack of fluids dumped all over the roadways? All the oils that ICE cars drip certainly must contribute to the deterioration of our roadways... especially asphalt. Drive down any road in the world, and you'll see the center of every lane darkened with some sort of fluid leaked from a car. Since there is very little oil in a BEV compared to an ICE... it's easy to argue that ICE vehicles do their share of damage.

Again, I'm not at all against paying my share of roadway costs... it just has to be equitable for all of us.

 

[APotatoGod]

I'm also in NC, and that's absolutely not true unless you drive a much lower than average number of miles.

NC gas tax is 35.4 cents per gallon. So to pay $130.01 in fuel taxes (higher than the EV tax) you need to buy ~367 gallons of gasoline.

The average new car gets about 25 mpg.

So 367*25= 9.175 miles driven.

Which is thousands of miles below the average # driven by year by NC drivers.

In fact the average NC driver does 15,729 miles a year...

Lol, your slight typo had me thinking for a minute that you calculated that they only drove 9.175 miles (as in slightly less than ten miles) before matching the EV tax cost . That would indeed be a very unusual annual driving distance

 

[Solor]

All the oils that ICE cars drip certainly must contribute to the deterioration of our roadways... especially asphalt.

Or the oil dripped could be enhancing the longevity of the Asphalt. I am not sure, but Asphalt is a petroleum product so who knows.