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Why do bigger wheels drain range?

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i want to get the 22s but know they get less range. But why is that? Is it just simply a weight issue or is there something more Scientific behind it?
If it’s weight, then I would consider T Sport Lines 22s that seem to be lighter to achieve close to the same range as Tesla’s stock 20s

Edit: title should read “Wheels”
 
Performance cars on the big wheels are delivered with sticky high performance summer tires instead of the low rolling resistance all season tires they get on the smaller wheels. Not sure what tires non-Performance cars with big wheels get.

That extra grip comes at the cost of higher rolling resistance, reducing range but increasing acceleration and shortening braking distances.
 
A larger wheel is going to weigh more and that in itself costs some range just as adding any other weight to the car does but they also have a larger rotational moment of inertia. It thus takes more energy to spin them up and accelerate them linearly and not all this energy is recoverable by regenerative braking.
 
Unsprung weight (weight not sitting above the suspension) is a b*tch. Depending on the vehicle every pound at the hub is equivalent to 3-7 pounds in the cabin. Let’s say the 22s are 15lbs (maybe even 20lbs) heavier compared to the 20s, 15lbs each wheel that is 60lbs by lets say x5 that’s 300lbs in the cabin at the very least. Also how wide the tires are also cause drag.

This puts a heavy toll on performance, brakes, and power used. Specially for city drivers. Anytime that car has to move from a full stop specially for you heavy footers you use a lot of (if not the most of) energy.
 
How does unsprung weight put a burden on power used? Potential energy is m*g*h whether m is sprung or unsprung. Translational kinnetic energy is m*v*v/2 whether m is sprung or unsprung and rotational kinnetic energy is I*omega*omega/2 whether the m in I is sprung or unsprung. Please explain further. Thanks.
 
Unsprung components need to rotate in order to transfer energy, the lighter that component is, the less energy it will take to turn it.

You add 50lbs to your wheel setup you’ll feel it much more vs having a 50lbs child in the vehicle.

If you like to understand it further google “unsprung weight” you’ll even find a wiki page on it.

Sport car manufactures spend loads of money to reduce unsprung weight and consumers also spend to reduce unsprung weight. Someone with a $60K car spend $10K on wheels to reduce 10lbs.

Go to Tesla.com if you select 22” wheels on your model X performance it drops from 305 range to 270 range. You are telling me for every 50lbs passenger you put in the vehicle you are going to lose 10% range?

Bottom line here is the 22” wheels put a great strain on the vehicle, reduces range, wears out brakes, effects bushing, shocks, causes more vibration throughout the vehicle loosing things, more road noise and much more.

I have both the 20s and 22s and find myself always having the 22s on. For me the looks outweighs the disadvantages lol.
 
Unsprung components need to rotate in order to transfer energy, the lighter that component is, the less energy it will take to turn it.

You add 50lbs to your wheel setup you’ll feel it much more vs having a 50lbs child in the vehicle.

If you like to understand it further google “unsprung weight” you’ll even find a wiki page on it.

Sport car manufactures spend loads of money to reduce unsprung weight and consumers also spend to reduce unsprung weight. Someone with a $60K car spend $10K on wheels to reduce 10lbs.

Go to Tesla.com if you select 22” wheels on your model X performance it drops from 305 range to 270 range. You are telling me for every 50lbs passenger you put in the vehicle you are going to lose 10% range?

Bottom line here is the 22” wheels put a great strain on the vehicle, reduces range, wears out brakes, effects bushing, shocks, causes more vibration throughout the vehicle loosing things, more road noise and much more.

I have both the 20s and 22s and find myself always having the 22s on. For me the looks outweighs the disadvantages lol.
Well put, and agree! It's great you mention it's not technical for you, but about looks. I had 22" at delivery and was living large, then changed to 20", stupid am I.
 
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Unsprung components need to rotate in order to transfer energy, ...
True for the unsprung parts that rotate but not for the brake assemblies etc. They do not rotate.

...the lighter that component is, the less energy it will take to turn it.
The power delivered to the wheel goes mostly to accelerate the vehicle or move it up a grade(at least that's what we design for) and is stored as the vehicle's kinnetic (m*v*v/2) and potential (m*g*h) energies that I mentioned in my last post. But some goes to warm bearings, some goes to warm the tire friction patch and sidewalls, some goes to warm the air (drag) and some goes to the kinnectic rotational energy of the wheel/tire assembly (I*omega*omegea/2) and half shafts, gears and rotors (brake and motor). The part that goes to the wheel/tire depends not only on the mass but on how it is distributed. The farther from the axle, the more a given mass adds to I. Thus a 22" wheel inherently has a bigger I than a 20" wheel of the same weight. Even were the 22" wheel were the same weight as the 20" it would require more energy in coming up to speed. BUT a portion of that rotational energy is recoverable by regenerative braking just as their translational kinnetic and potential energies are. And the key word in that sentence is "portion". If you put an extra 100 lbs in the trunk an drive it up a hill and then back down you will not recover all the potential energy you had to put into it and if you use bigger wheels you will not recover all the kinetic energy you had to put into their rotation to get them up to driving speed. Thus a larger wheel is inherently less efficient than a smaller one from this perspective and it has nothing to do with the fact that the wheels are unsprung weight.

You add 50lbs to your wheel setup you’ll feel it much more vs having a 50lbs child in the vehicle.
Accelerating along a smooth bit of straight road I would expect, with a larger wheel, less available acceleration for exactly the reasons given in the last paragraph. At 50 mph a child contains a fair amount of kinnetic energy and thus the system (vehicle and child) contains more kinnetic (translational) than it would were the child not in it. Similarly a child free vehicle with 22" wheels contains more rotational kinnetic energy than one with 20" wheels (if the wheels weigh the same) and perhaps a bit more translational as well if the wheels are heavier. As more energy has had to be put in acceleration at the same available power would have been more sluggish. Were I to add 50 lbs to, say the brake caliper, I would not notice any difference relative to the 50 lb child simply because the weight is unsprung.


If you like to understand it further google “unsprung weight” you’ll even find a wiki page on it.
I used smooth straight road in the last paragraph because when the road starts to make demands of the suspension there are effects related to the suspension design, including the ratio if sprung to unsprung weight that could indirectly effect consumption. This sort of thing is mentioned in that article the thrust of which is that there are, surprise, surprise, trades between ride comfort and handling that depend on the unsprung to sprung ratio.


Sport car manufactures spend loads of money to reduce unsprung weight and consumers also spend to reduce unsprung weight. Someone with a $60K car spend $10K on wheels to reduce 10lbs.
Most consumers are not engineers and get taken in by various marketing ploys. Most consumers are not engineers. If you read the article you referenced you should take away from it that suspension design is pretty complicated. If the notion can be spread among the consumer base that unsprung = bad then a manufacturer can sell more cars by advertising that he has lowered the unsprung weight. Most consumers won't understand the trades or even appreciate that too little unsprung weight can lead us into parts of the trade space where we don't want to be in some applications.

Go to Tesla.com if you select 22” wheels on your model X performance it drops from 305 range to 270 range. You are telling me for every 50lbs passenger you put in the vehicle you are going to lose 10% range?
I am telling you that a 22" wheel has a rotational inertia that is at least 21% greater than a 20" wheel merely by virtue of its greater diameter and probably greater than that because it probably weighs more. Thus more power is required for the same acceleration. This may be why you think having the 22" wheels makes you feel as if you have 50 lbs extra load on board. I'm a little skeptical about this though because I don't have any numbers on the kinnetic energy stored in a rotating tire of either size but fully expect that it is small relative to that stored in the translational energy of the 2500 kg vehicle. But then the translational kinetic energy stored in a 50 pound (22 kg) kid is very small relative to the kinetic energy of the car.

I am also telling you that the energy losses associated with recovery of wheel rotational kinetic energy are higher with 22" wheels than with 20" because of the physics. Again, I doubt that this is responsible for the 8.8% increase in Wh/mi because, again, I expect rotational kinnetic energy in the wheels is a small fraction of the total system kinetic energy.


Bottom line here is the 22” wheels put a great strain on the vehicle, reduces range, wears out brakes, effects bushing, shocks, causes more vibration throughout the vehicle loosing things, more road noise and much more.
High unsprung weight can put stresses on brakes and clearly shocks but we don't use the brakes in our Teslas. High unsprung weight reduces vibrations (low pass filter effect) and road noise (at least theoretically).

I think the real bottom line here is that the increased energy demand with the 22" wheels comes in small part from the increased rotational inertia of the larger wheel but probably mostly from the fact that different tires are used - tires that have more rolling resistance and thus dissipate more heat in the friction patch and sidewalls. The fact that there is a little more unsprung weight would seem to have little to do with it.

I have both the 20s and 22s and find myself always having the 22s on. For me the looks outweighs the disadvantages lol.[/QUOTE]
 
Yes, that would mean more mass at the furthest distance possible from the axis and thus more inertia. But would it increase the size of the friction patch? More axial width to disperse the weight over suggests the patch would be smaller in the transverse direction i.e. same weight per patch unit area. ?
 
It's relatively easy to understand the theory to the point of appreciating that increasing wheel inertia and increasing patch friction will both decrease range (and there are other factors too). What we have no idea about is the relative significance of those (or the other) factors in bringing about the range reduction.
 
22s are awful in stop/start traffic when rolling the difference is barely 5% if that.

Two identical trips, one on 22s one on 20s, based on consumption figures can you guess which trip is which??

48626127143_47d3d8f3a4_z_d.jpg


27338364569_fdc0696460_z_d.jpg
 
Hello everyone.
I have a M3 but am going to trade it in for a MX. M3 too small for me. I am taking delivery early November and cant wait!!!. Ordered with standard wheels but thinking about aftermarket 22"s from Tsportline. All have said 22"s get an energy penalty. What I cant figure out is the loss of energy is because of the "weight" increase of the rims or do the 22"s have an "overall" total circumference size increase of the tire/rim combo? In my mind if the entire circumference is the same between 20 and 22"s then the weight can't be that much more to cause such a drastic energy loss right??