That's correct.
We have 3 Delta Solivia inverters for the first 16.5 kW system. When we had 4 kW added last year on the NW roof, they used a SolarEdge with optimizers.
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Why is Tesla Solar so Inexpensive Compared to Others?
- Thread starter IamMark
- Start date
We have 3 Delta Solivia inverters for the first 16.5 kW system. When we had 4 kW added last year on the NW roof, they used a SolarEdge with optimizers.
If you are on a device, such as a phone, it's easy to click the wrong icon and if you don't check...
Solar Renewable Energy Certificates. Basically your utility agrees to pay you per kWh since you're generating solar energy and helping them meet required solar energy production goals.
I recently confirmed that we are supposed to receive ours (on top of any other netmetering credits) for the first 10 years...buy my utility company hasn't paid us a single cent. I think ours only amount to 1.5 cents per kWh produced (half of what they offered a couple years earlier) but they still owe us over $628. We're trying to get another issue resolved with our utility before going after the RECs.
I don't doubt that the items you mentioned can lead to reduced costs. But we're talking a $9K - $14K difference. That's an entire small solar system (no pun intended)! There's got to be more to it than that.
Just based on cost alone, I'd sign up with Tesla in a heartbeat. But the substantial difference in price is making me leery, and the stories of horrible customer service don't help.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
If your neighbor wants to retain the SRECs, just ask a Tesla advisor. In Maryland they were offering $170 per system kW, but I figured I could make more selling them myself. The Tesla advisor was more than happy to remove the SREC buyout when I asked.
Are you sure the utility company is responsible for paying the SRECs? It was my understanding that you need to register your system with an SREC broker who tracks your usage and does the buying. Some more information here: SRECTrade: What to Know About the Top SREC Trading Platform | EnergySage
I've seen almost a dozen new people sign up here, myself included: Post Your Tesla Solar Layout
Just follow up with us in 1-2 months and we'll let you know how it goes.
charlesj
Active Member
My install experience itself was very good and very clean.
As to customer service response to a poster, it seems to be a hit and miss. I had a person who could not find my emails that she sent me nor my responses. Then the next person bent over backwards to help, though his back will break.
Then today, the final document to sign at my account page has technical issues. Maybe next Tuesday.
At times it seems this is a startup operation.
Not correct generally. SRECs are based on MWh produced and owned by the producer. If you own your system they are yours but if you rent then probably not based on your specific agreement. SRECs can be traded if there is a market. In my state of Maine there is no “solar carve out”—we just have RECs which also include biomass—so we cannot trade in the lucrative Massachucetts SREC market but I can sell my RECs to the Maine Green Energy Program which in turn sells them to people who pay a slightly higher rate for “green energy”. Your utility may be a buyer of your SRECs but only if specified in a contract.
Remember that if you sell your SRECs you can no longer say you are Driving on Sunshine, but somebody else may be.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Good explanation, but I don't think there's ever an incentive to not sell your SRECs.
I don't know how it works in Maine, but in Maryland the SRECs are generally traded to the utility companies at the price equal to the fine they would pay for each MWh not generated with renewables, which is a fraction of the cost of electricity per MWh. So it's more of a policy-created incentive to reward solar energy producers and punish the utility for under-utilization of renewables.
What year did you ask Solar City for a quote? Tesla did a great job designing my layout this year.
brucet999
Active Member
Three years ago; still Solar City personnel, but under Tesla name by then.
I've been shopping around, too, via Energysage.com. (Highly recommend) Got a highly rated local company, Green Power Energy, to quote me a system slightly larger, 9 k vs 8k Tesla panels, but yes they are more expensive: $17k versus $10k for Tesla. Huge difference. Green Power uses Panasonic panels with Enphase micro-inverters on each panel. Called Tesla who told me they are using the Korean panels. I'm trying to use a local installer who can be trusted to be around for service. But is it worth the difference? Can Tesla be trusted on installation and service? I"m no troll. I love my Model 3. But any advice on installation and service headaches on Tesla panels would be welcomed. Thanks.
Just to echo the comments about the SREC's - they are selling for about $70 each here, and traded in a market (yes, you have to register if you want to sell yours, its all normal procedure). A 17 kW in this area (Nominally $30k from Tesla) makes about 23 SRECs each year, so would be producing $1610 in cash to the owner (if you haven't given/sold the lifetime rights to Tesla). Market can and does go up and down, so nothing is guaranteed. 10 years of that is over half the initial cost. And, I do understand time-value-of-money, but the discount rate these days is low - approaching negative.
I'm still collecting/selling SREC's on a system we installed in 2009. Earning less now, but it's not terrible.
The SREC's alone paid for the system over the years.
Good to hear that Tesla gives you the choice of selling or not. I am worried about the inexperienced sales staff - hard to know if they are saying what they think you want to hear or actually know the correct answer.
I'm still collecting/selling SREC's on a system we installed in 2009. Earning less now, but it's not terrible.
The SREC's alone paid for the system over the years.
Good to hear that Tesla gives you the choice of selling or not. I am worried about the inexperienced sales staff - hard to know if they are saying what they think you want to hear or actually know the correct answer.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
These are the panels Tesla is installing now: Q.PEAK DUO-G6+ solar panels by Q CELLS | Q CELLS
Designed in Germany, with some manufactured in South Korea and some manufactured in Dalton, Georgia.
I've been reading up on them and they come very highly recommended; guaranteed 85% capacity after 25 years, full 25 year manufacturer warranty, rated against hail, wind, and fire.
I haven't had mine installed yet, but the process so far has been 90% online, which is appreciated in the time of COVID.
It is somewhat of an "off-menu" option. There's no way I've found to configure the order online to retain the SREC rights. But they're happy to do it with a quick phone call. It's a bit presumptive on Tesla's part to make selling the SREC rights the default option, but I'm sure it makes them lots of profit so they have an incentive to try.
An SREC is the "goodness" associated with producing 1000 kWH (1 MWh) of electricity. In many states, they have set up a marketplace and you can sell the SREC (you still get to use the electricity). Buyers are either companies trying to offset pollution (like airlines) or utilities facing a mandate to use renewable or purchase x% of equivalents. Another way to think about it, is they are a funding mechanism to incentive solar installs. If you rented a solar roof (in the old days), the company who installed it would keep the SREC's and sell them. Since Tesla is now selling solar installs, you have the choice to keep (and then sell) the SREC's or Tesla will buy all of them from you for an upfront payment that seems to equal what you would get on the open market in 1.5 years.
As I said, I have a solar system from 2009 that is still making SREC's and I am still selling them. Been very good for me to keep the rights to sell them myself.
Solar Renewable Energy Certificate - Wikipedia
As I said, I have a solar system from 2009 that is still making SREC's and I am still selling them. Been very good for me to keep the rights to sell them myself.
Solar Renewable Energy Certificate - Wikipedia
ElectricCyclist
Member
View attachment 556865 I believe the PW and Gateway price to a certified installer is not discounted from your price here. Then, their labor seems to be way higher.
My install experience itself was very good and very clean.
As to customer service response to a poster, it seems to be a hit and miss. I had a person who could not find my emails that she sent me nor my responses. Then the next person bent over backwards to help, though his back will break.
Then today, the final document to sign at my account page has technical issues. Maybe next Tuesday.
At times it seems this is a startup operation.
I have had the exact same experience as you have had being hit or miss depending on your advisor. I have someone who isn't my powerwall advisor but helped me at the beginning when my solar and powerwall were packaged together this is going the extra mile for me but others seem to lack in communication. With this price change I can only assume they are being overwhelmed with new orders so lets give them a few weeks to get their heads above water and if anything just keep calling in and asking for status updates if you feel your project isn't getting enough attention. My solar is now installed with PTO and they are designing my 2 powerwall addition.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Things will also quiet down starting July 1. My Model 3 sales advisor at the end of Q2 2019 was drafted from the Solar team, so I know it can be "all hands on deck" on the automotive side this time of the quarter.
My first two solar installs were done by a local company 17 and 18 years ago. The went out business a long time ago (technically they were acquired) but I've been on my own with those systems for the last 12 years or so. I have a Solar city install 12 years ago and 6 years ago. The 6 year old Solar City (Tesla) install was a replacement of the first system. I was able to get a tiny fraction my sunk costs from of a payout from BP solar from their massively defective modules. But I was on my own on getting the panels removed (had to pay for that) and nothing for the balance of equipment. I also bought an investment property that had Solar City on it. I was able to use the contracted $500 for panel removal/reinstall for a roof repair. Tesla ended up subcontracting the work because they were so backed up but they honored the contract.
I added Tesla powerwalls installed a couple of years ago. By far, their costs were the lowest.
Solar City/Tesla is far from perfect but from I can make out of the underlying system/approach I think they are solid. I can see where they've tried to strip out a lot of the costs in the traditional business. I thought Solar City was going to be super disruptive. I think they hiccuped for awhile but I think they're starting to apply the Tesla disruption engine. I would buy from them again.
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I remember reading here that if you went with Tesla you essentially had to be your own project manager. I would say that's somewhat true, maybe more so if you have something that upsets the cookie cutter approach. In my case, I wanted roof vents moved to have a seamless rectangle on my west facing roof. This meant I had to get a plumber and a roofer, get the work done, and then send in the photos to Tesla so they could update my design. Could I have hired a solar outfit to do a turnkey and handle everything? Sure! Would it be a lot more expensive? You bet!
Even before the latest price reduction, Tesla's small system price was very good compared to the competition. ~$2.5/watt is an absolute steal for a system less than 5 or 6 kW. (Of course such prices in 5 years may be laughable!)
Even before the latest price reduction, Tesla's small system price was very good compared to the competition. ~$2.5/watt is an absolute steal for a system less than 5 or 6 kW. (Of course such prices in 5 years may be laughable!)
Going through all of this also. Signed everything for the 7 kw Tesla system, went very quickly (maybe 5 days from ordering on the site to having the design approved, permits readied, on site inspection done, loan signed) but the person assigned to me was unbeknownst to me from Tesla Motors and horrible to work with with all kinds of wrong info about removal costs, interest rates, buyout option on subscription. Found out after signing everything that they were requiring the tile roof to be redone with comp shingle underneath for another $11k and that you can call Tesla and talk to someone at Tesla Solar to get correct info.
Now have everything on hold and sifting through multiple quotes from local solar companies. Huge range in pricing but I have gotten one that is actually much cheaper than with Tesla since it can go on top of tiles, much better rate (3.99% vs 5.99%) and with SunPower panels that carry better warranties for product and degradation.
Was really excited about the Tesla system but the customer service has been so poor I don’t know if I can do it at this point.
Now have everything on hold and sifting through multiple quotes from local solar companies. Huge range in pricing but I have gotten one that is actually much cheaper than with Tesla since it can go on top of tiles, much better rate (3.99% vs 5.99%) and with SunPower panels that carry better warranties for product and degradation.
Was really excited about the Tesla system but the customer service has been so poor I don’t know if I can do it at this point.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
For the vast majority of systems there is no benefit to having optimizers. I've installed optimized and non-optimized systems; there is no distinguishable performance difference. Even when there's shade so long as each string is on an independent MPPT the shaded panel is bypassed by the bypass diodes.
SMA recently published a white paper about this.
I tend to believe that Tesla and Tesla Energy will be around for a long time. Batteries are a big part of their future and so is solar. Elon/Tesla are out to promote sustainable energy and I believe they work to keep improving what they have and reduce the cost so it's more affordable to more people. Saw that with the cars and think we are seeing it now with the energy products.
We thought about going with a local company initially but there's no guarantee they will be in business years down the road. The roofing company that installed our roofs went out of business so we don't necessarily see local as the best answer. As for Tesla's work I know they were swamped here in the SF Bay area end of last year and beginning of this year due to the wildfires and people looking for a solution so they didn't lose power for days from the PG&E Safety Shutdowns. TE was scrambling to find enough installation teams and we were told they even initially used out-of-state teams to help out. That was not a sustainable solution for many reasons but it bought them time to hire and get them trained. There's been additional training on the new items as well as the solar roof.
Overall, so far, we have had a very positive experience with ordering and communications. Ordered our system during a store visit--just basic info given at this stage. The deposit triggered putting us in touch fairly quickly with an advisor who was extremely knowledgeable and went through our needs, answering a slew of questions we had. I believe we had two, hour-long conversation over a few weeks. We prepared ahead of time for these calls by compiling a list of questions to make the most of his time. Really appreciated the amount we were given. Our advisor went over equipment, the install process and then going to contract. He also answered questions we had on the contract prior to signing. The design team prepared the roof layout and provided spec sheets for the equipment that would be included. We were asked to send photos of the main panel and asked to contact our HOA for any architectural approval we would need.
Covid hit just as we were suppose to have our solar installed and it's kind of been a waiting game as a result. As we had questions about our permitting, main panel upgrade, waiting for city approvals, upgrading to 3 PWs and then more permitting with our city for that, they pretty much kept the flow going. The photos of our main panel upgrade finalized work was received but apparently didn't get ticked off on their checklist, so it's smart to periodically check status with them. I think they are swamped now in areas of the country that have opened up to installations; and the new solar panel pricing has generated a lot of interest and calls to them. The few times we went to reach out to our advisor and she (second advisor assigned to us) wasn't available, we just called back and just spoke to who was. Those times have always been met with very helpful staff who could look up our order and check on progress and initiate followup as needed. Always handled very professionally and we never felt pressured or rushed on the phone.
TE has put in a tremendous amount of time and work product for the initial $100 deposit. They pulled our permits without needing any funds from us. We feel they have been very fair and said they would be more than happy to review our contract pricing with the new solar panel pricing announced and give us the better deal, which they did. We have neighbors that had their PWs installed in early March and we saw the work. Looked great and our neighbor only had positive things to say about the team and the install. Spoke with him since and he said the system has been working great. I suppose like any company there will be inconsistencies in service among different employees on a project. I have no problems recommending Tesla Energy based on our experience.
We thought about going with a local company initially but there's no guarantee they will be in business years down the road. The roofing company that installed our roofs went out of business so we don't necessarily see local as the best answer. As for Tesla's work I know they were swamped here in the SF Bay area end of last year and beginning of this year due to the wildfires and people looking for a solution so they didn't lose power for days from the PG&E Safety Shutdowns. TE was scrambling to find enough installation teams and we were told they even initially used out-of-state teams to help out. That was not a sustainable solution for many reasons but it bought them time to hire and get them trained. There's been additional training on the new items as well as the solar roof.
Overall, so far, we have had a very positive experience with ordering and communications. Ordered our system during a store visit--just basic info given at this stage. The deposit triggered putting us in touch fairly quickly with an advisor who was extremely knowledgeable and went through our needs, answering a slew of questions we had. I believe we had two, hour-long conversation over a few weeks. We prepared ahead of time for these calls by compiling a list of questions to make the most of his time. Really appreciated the amount we were given. Our advisor went over equipment, the install process and then going to contract. He also answered questions we had on the contract prior to signing. The design team prepared the roof layout and provided spec sheets for the equipment that would be included. We were asked to send photos of the main panel and asked to contact our HOA for any architectural approval we would need.
Covid hit just as we were suppose to have our solar installed and it's kind of been a waiting game as a result. As we had questions about our permitting, main panel upgrade, waiting for city approvals, upgrading to 3 PWs and then more permitting with our city for that, they pretty much kept the flow going. The photos of our main panel upgrade finalized work was received but apparently didn't get ticked off on their checklist, so it's smart to periodically check status with them. I think they are swamped now in areas of the country that have opened up to installations; and the new solar panel pricing has generated a lot of interest and calls to them. The few times we went to reach out to our advisor and she (second advisor assigned to us) wasn't available, we just called back and just spoke to who was. Those times have always been met with very helpful staff who could look up our order and check on progress and initiate followup as needed. Always handled very professionally and we never felt pressured or rushed on the phone.
TE has put in a tremendous amount of time and work product for the initial $100 deposit. They pulled our permits without needing any funds from us. We feel they have been very fair and said they would be more than happy to review our contract pricing with the new solar panel pricing announced and give us the better deal, which they did. We have neighbors that had their PWs installed in early March and we saw the work. Looked great and our neighbor only had positive things to say about the team and the install. Spoke with him since and he said the system has been working great. I suppose like any company there will be inconsistencies in service among different employees on a project. I have no problems recommending Tesla Energy based on our experience.
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