I have been reading a lot about how the rewrite will significantly improve FSD. So I am to assume that the rewrite will have no impact on EAP as this will only improve cars with HW3?
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Will autopilot rewrite affect EAP and FSD?
- Thread starter travis1906
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
AFAIK anything older than HW3 isn't capable of processing all the cameras at once, so wouldn't be able to use the re-write anyway.
Which means their code base is likely done getting anything but the most needed bug fixes or improvements largely unrelated to driving behavior.
Which means their code base is likely done getting anything but the most needed bug fixes or improvements largely unrelated to driving behavior.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Until a few weeks ago those didn't exist.
Good question though, now that they do.
Tesla could either leave them on the 2.x code branch like older EAP owners, or move them to the 3.x branch when launched and disable the "extra" features.
Option 2 would obviously be better for those owners, but considerably more work/management on Teslas part and potentially raise complaints.
Overall the bringing back EAP briefly last month thing was just weird.
Oh, wait... option 3-
Tesla offers a PAID HW3 upgrade for old EAP owners to move to the 3.x code branch, but without the extra FSD features. I suppose that's a possible thing they could do.
Do you know how much Tesla charges if someone wanted to upgrade to HW3? There would obviously have to be some significant improvement with EAP and not just FSD in that case.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Currently the only way to upgrade to HW3 is buying FSD...
What I was suggesting was if there were substantive improvements possible to EAP with HW3 Tesla could offer a paid upgrade to EAP owners... as a third alternative to the other options suggested.
alstoralset
Man from another place
HW3 is just a stopgap until HW4 is available, which may be the key to the FSD kingdom. Or maybe this whole thing is an embodiment of Zeno's Paradox. 
Tesla is working on HW 4.0 self-driving chip with TSMC for mass production in Q4 2021, report says - Electrek
Tesla is working on HW 4.0 self-driving chip with TSMC for mass production in Q4 2021, report says - Electrek
It will never be perfect. Even with SDHW3000 (super duper hardware year 3000 edition)
My expectation is the rewrite will improve the entire AP/EAP/FSD experience on HW3 Vehicles. That regardless of what package you have you'll see significant improvements.
It's going to be like that because AP/EAP are component parts of FSD.
AP is TACC + Lane Steering
EAP is AP + Auto-Lane Changes + other stuff
FSD is EAP + other stuff
Currently I find NoA almost completely unusable due to the result of everything below it not being ready for prime time.
TACC is problematic due to phantom braking events. Elon is aware of this, and from his latest tweet that claims its been fixed in the latest mass release (which it hasn't) at least tells us he's aware that owners are livid about it.
AP doesn't work because you can't be in the right lane without it recentering itself when it expands in width to accommodate a merge lane (unless you're in a state like OR which use lane markings that keeps the car from recentering into the merging lane).
Auto-lane changes don't work because the current neural network struggles with determining the exact location of the Semi-truck not in the lane next to you, but the lane over by one. So if there is a semi-truck there it often fails to auto-lane change into the middle lane.
As I understand it the rewrite requires adds the element of time, and I imagine this will substantially improve the performance of TACC all the way up to FSD. The lack of taking into account time is why so many of these things fail. They currently exist as in the moment things that only respond to what's happening that exact 1/X amount of time with no concept of what came before or what came after.
The new rewrite only works on HW3 vehicles so Tesla has the option of including it for everyone with HW3 (and just disabling EAP/FSD functions of AP only people) or they can use the existing neural network code for people with HW3, but without FSD. The problem with that is people won't move up to FSD with AP/EAP performing as badly as it currently does.
So the only option that makes since is everyone with HW3 gets the rewrite. Someone with AP that performs beautifully is much more likely to justify additional expenditure to get EAP (if available) or FSD.
The other possibility is it really won't improve anything, and AP/EAP/FSD will be just as problematic as today.
It's going to be like that because AP/EAP are component parts of FSD.
AP is TACC + Lane Steering
EAP is AP + Auto-Lane Changes + other stuff
FSD is EAP + other stuff
Currently I find NoA almost completely unusable due to the result of everything below it not being ready for prime time.
TACC is problematic due to phantom braking events. Elon is aware of this, and from his latest tweet that claims its been fixed in the latest mass release (which it hasn't) at least tells us he's aware that owners are livid about it.
AP doesn't work because you can't be in the right lane without it recentering itself when it expands in width to accommodate a merge lane (unless you're in a state like OR which use lane markings that keeps the car from recentering into the merging lane).
Auto-lane changes don't work because the current neural network struggles with determining the exact location of the Semi-truck not in the lane next to you, but the lane over by one. So if there is a semi-truck there it often fails to auto-lane change into the middle lane.
As I understand it the rewrite requires adds the element of time, and I imagine this will substantially improve the performance of TACC all the way up to FSD. The lack of taking into account time is why so many of these things fail. They currently exist as in the moment things that only respond to what's happening that exact 1/X amount of time with no concept of what came before or what came after.
The new rewrite only works on HW3 vehicles so Tesla has the option of including it for everyone with HW3 (and just disabling EAP/FSD functions of AP only people) or they can use the existing neural network code for people with HW3, but without FSD. The problem with that is people won't move up to FSD with AP/EAP performing as badly as it currently does.
So the only option that makes since is everyone with HW3 gets the rewrite. Someone with AP that performs beautifully is much more likely to justify additional expenditure to get EAP (if available) or FSD.
The other possibility is it really won't improve anything, and AP/EAP/FSD will be just as problematic as today.
Yesterday on AP, my model 3 bounced like a ping pong ball and disengaged in 2 to 1 merge area on the freeway.
It was right after the sun had set. But during the summer it never behaved that way during daylight at the same spot.
My hand was on the steering wheel so I grabbed it quickly but the car was zig zagging violently.
It was right after the sun had set. But during the summer it never behaved that way during daylight at the same spot.
My hand was on the steering wheel so I grabbed it quickly but the car was zig zagging violently.
Appreciate your thoughtful and thorough response (agree with all the limitations you laid out).
But the bottom line answer looks like only HW3 will get the rewrite and hence only owners with FSD based on your assessment as nobody has HW3 except FSD owners.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
errrr... nearly everyone whose Tesla was built in the last ~18 months has HW3, regardless of having purchased FSD or not.
(Elon claimed all cars built after April 22nd 2019, but there's been occasional batches for whom that wasn't true last year)
That isn't true, all new cars come with HW3 regardless of if FSD is purchased or not.
Was viewing this from my perspective of having to get HW3 installed as my mental model was I don’t have HW3 (and can’t get it unless I have FSD). I upgraded to EAP on the 30th.
You missed HW3 by a couple months. All Model 3s started having HW3 around April, 2019.
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