HW4 will have next-gen cameras per Elon tonight.
No word on if it'll have more/different placement or not, and no word on retrofits yet
Yeah I will just keep my car forever until they retrofit out of spite
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HW4 will have next-gen cameras per Elon tonight.
No word on if it'll have more/different placement or not, and no word on retrofits yet
This speaks volumes. Tesla is in potential trouble@verygreen did some experiments with this already, it was very telling. Going to be expensive and swamp service center even more.
Well comparative pictures suggest they didn’t allow for visual obstructionsyeah because they totally forgot about turns when putting the cameras in.
cameras per Elon tonight.
Again, how do humans cope when they dont have eyes on the front corner?This speaks volumes. Tesla is in potential trouble
Thankyou @verygreen
I don't see how swapping out the side cameras would cost that much if they can use the existing harness for two cameras.@verygreen did some experiments with this already, it was very telling. Going to be expensive and swamp service center even more.
I guess they lean forward? I measured and the camera is 2 feet back from my face resting against the steering wheel. It really doesn't seem like that big a deal. The problems in FSD Beta right now are caused by the system not knowing when it can't see (which needs to be solved regardless of camera positions).Again, how do humans cope when they dont have eyes on the front corner?
They lean forward. You didn’t consider this?Again, how do humans cope when they dont have eyes on the front corner?
Yes. It does not know when it can't see. That's what humans do differently, we decide to adjust our eye position or car position. In some cases we creep forward to take a peek and quickly reverse. Sometimes we have to get out of the car and take a quick look or get someone else to look for us. If we really can't see and it's too risky we just don't go that way. I've done all those things at various times. FSD has been shown that it often just goes when it doesn't know it can't see. That's a strange logic: "it must be safe if I can't tell that it's unsafe".I guess they lean forward? I measured and the camera is 2 feet back from my face resting against the steering wheel. It really doesn't seem like that big a deal. The problems in FSD Beta right now are caused by the system not knowing when it can't see (which needs to be solved regardless of camera positions).
I think a bigger potential issue is the lack of a forward facing drivers side camera. It seems like that's necessary to see around cars in front of you.
They can do that probably because it's still L2. For L2 it's typically "better" to err on the side of less caution given people will be impatient if it hesitates too much (you have people overriding with accelerator). For L4 it would have to be tuned for caution though.Yes. It does not know when it can't see. That's what humans do differently, we decide to adjust our eye position or car position. In some cases we creep forward to take a peek and quickly reverse. Sometimes we have to get out of the car and take a quick look or get someone else to look for us. If we really can't see and it's too risky we just don't go that way. I've done all those things at various times. FSD has been shown that it often just goes when it doesn't know it can't see. That's a strange logic: "it must be safe if I can't tell that it's unsafe".
For L2 it's typically "better" to err on the side of less cautionThey can do that probably because it's still L2. For L2 it's typically "better" to err on the side of less caution given people will be impatient if it hesitates too much (you have people overriding with accelerator). For L4 it would have to be tuned for caution though.
Didn't look at the video and pictures of verygreen's test previously, but that example precisely matches my expectations and why I said the angle of the car in various videos is likely necessary. If you tilt the car a bit to one side, the B-pillar camera would be in far better position to view around obstructions like that without actually intruding into the traffic lane. If instead you insist the car must be dead straight, then it's going to have to pull further forward to view around that corner.
It's better to err on the side of less caution for YouTube videos. Either the car does something amazing and shows "confidence" or it fails spectacularly. And we know that everyone loves fail videos!For L2 it's typically "better" to err on the side of less caution
Ooh, that would be a tough statement for any manufacturer to make publicly. I'll disagree with that one
I'm not sure yet if FSD Beta is actually turning the car the wrong way to improve B-pillar views. Perhaps (as it might be a strategy that has some merit), but some of Chuck's drives show somewhat random behaviour at the exact same intersection. Certainly it's "creeping for visibility", I'll agree with FSD on that.
Well you have people calling exactly for that in regards to ACC. They would rather have the car not react to as much things, than have phantom braking.For L2 it's typically "better" to err on the side of less caution
Ooh, that would be a tough statement for any manufacturer to make publicly. I'll disagree with that one
Yes, the behavior is a bit random, but there are plenty of cases where the car does turn fairly extreme angles and that does appear to improve visibility significantly for the cameras (I can probably do another diagram like I did for the other scenario in the other thread when I have the free time).I'm not sure yet if FSD Beta is actually turning the car the wrong way to improve B-pillar views. Perhaps (as it might be a strategy that has some merit), but some of Chuck's drives show somewhat random behaviour at the exact same intersection. Certainly it's "creeping for visibility", I'll agree with FSD on that.
Sometimes, we play frogger and cause accidents.Again, how do humans cope when they dont have eyes on the front corner?
Link? I only read new FSD computerHW4 will have next-gen cameras per Elon tonight.
No word on if it'll have more/different placement or not, and no word on retrofits yet
Or they could just not do anything and pocket the money. If pushed, they could just state they'd fix the software on the old cars to give FSD, eventually.I'm unsure how expensive it'd be if they did decide they were gonna add this to new cars to retrofit old ones... if they can extend the current camera harness since it's a fairly low bandwidth application then the only real expense beyond labor is the new fender mounts-- which they'd already be mass producing for new cars anyway.
If they decided it's needed for FSD then the math is simply is it cheaper to do the retrofit, or refund what they paid for FSD? I'd expect the retrofit to be cheaper (again- if actually nedded)
Link? I only read new FSD computer
Musk was asked the same question about other parts of the FSD hardware suite, and he confirmed that Tesla also plans to upgrade the cameras with next-generation cameras, starting with the Cybertruck.
Or they could just not do anything and pocket the money
If pushed, they could just state they'd fix the software on the old cars to give FSD, eventually.
Make three right turns instead? Make a right turn then a U-turn?
You can lean like a foot forward or something.
human vision is entirely different from fixed cameras.
pan/tilt and maybe even zoom is useful. arguably, even needed. nd (neut density) also needed.
eyes have lids and can self-clean. tesla cams can't self clean.
they are under-equipped with sensors. they care about price point. that's obvious, else they'd have included lidar
and more cams.
Again, how do humans cope when they dont have eyes on the front corner?