Winter Driving Experiences

[stachler]

A very important question mark for me was cleared yesterday, when Can Sig53 was kind enough to come to my home and tried my icy uphill driveway and made sure ground clearance was fine in standard mode. Having heard some of the issues in this thread I needed to see it for myself. Unfortunately, snow had melted a bit and there were asphalt spots covered with sleet. still slippery but not as much as snow imho.

Here are the quick videos I was able to take (my friend was a bit in a hurry...).

Restarted Safari and video working now. So you friend is happy with his car in the snow then? I am wondering about snow conditions as well and am wondering if I should finalize or wait for AWD version or alternative? Suspect you are thinking about the same thing?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Wow, your driveway and mine are nearly identical. I strongly prefer to back down the driveway, which puts the car going forward up the steep hill. When you're on a slope like that, your weight distribution effectively shifts to the downhill axle. You want to be loading the drive wheels (rear) for maximum traction.

 

[epley]

I've ordered the 19's with winter tire package, but they are on back order. I haven't been in snow yet, but the 21's are performing well on slick surfaces, and exceptionally well in the rain.

Tesla did cold weather testing on the Model S this winter. Unfortunately, they did not release any details so what you see in the video is all the information there is. The Roadster is quite a different vehicle (lighter, different battery placement) so it doesn't really have any bearing on how the Model S will handle.

With vehicle stability control, traction control and the weight of the battery being even on both axles, the winter ability should be quite good (probably better than many 4x4 vehicles) if proper tires are installed. The main concern is that Tesla chose to equip the Model S with 19" and 21" wheels rather than more sensible 15" or 16" wheels. The 19" tires should perform satisfactorily if proper tires are chosen but had they chosen 15" or 16" wheels the Model S would eat up almost every other vehicle out there. The 21" will be quite poor in winter conditions, so don't get those.

 

[pbrulott]

Forgot to say that I was so afraid that my friend hit the left side of the garge with his brand new S... I would have felt so bad. 2 of my close neighboors had their wives scratching their car doing so.

Jeeps17, when getting into the garage backward, his left wheel was in a low spot of my driveway in the snow (I thought he had hit the side of the garage...) and he decided to stop and go fwd but the wheel spun and then went backward again, that went fine. I think I might have difficulties from time to time when the driveway is full of snow. The conditions you see on the video is 80% of the time in the winter.

Rober.Boston, that is my plan to back down the driveway. It was greatly influenced by the position of the charger on the S. Nose in would have put the charger in the way of the garage door when open (I want to install it on the ceilling with a support). If it helps getting out then it's a bonus.

Sig53 had the 19 inches Pirellis

 

[zax123]

I think we have pretty conclusive evidence that the stock Pirellis definitely aren't the best for winter conditions. And according to patp, the Nokian (non-studded) are much better. We need to either find an aftermarket wheel/tire kit with Nokian, or we have to push Tesla to offer non-studded Nokian.

I would tend towards aftermarket because it's gotta be cheaper than $2400 or $2800 for a kit. Buying a "suggested" kit at tirerack.com right now can be as cheap as $1500. Then you have to add TPMS sensors and install to that. Must be less than $2400. Unfortunately, tirerack doesn't have the Nokian...

 

[pbrulott]

zax123, my friend said that the $2400 price was for the mags and the tires which seems pretty reasonabl to me.

 

[stachler]

I..............I would tend towards aftermarket because it's gotta be cheaper than $2400 or $2800 for a kit. Buying a "suggested" kit at tirerack.com right now can be as cheap as $1500. Then you have to add TPMS sensors and install to that. Must be less than $2400. Unfortunately, tirerack doesn't have the Nokian...

Can you run aftermarket snow tires and wheels without the tire pressure sensors? Or does the car send off beeps or alarms in their absence?

 

[PatP]

Can you run aftermarket snow tires and wheels without the tire pressure sensors? Or does the car send off beeps or alarms in their absence?

Yes. However you get an error message all the time and a blinking icon - but it's not that annoying. Actually this is my situation as my TPMS are not configured properly with the car.

 

[wycolo]

Originally Posted by wycolo:
Turned on the heat/defrost/seats. Right away left side of drivers view blocked by fog, turning to ice. Had to lean a bit to the right to see properly, but zero traffic today. Will find my mini heater/blower unit & velcro to dash as a temporary cure. Something weird must be blocking the defrost vent on the far left, as others have reported.

Have you tried cleaning the windshield and applying RainX anti-fog like others have done? That's awful that a car of any kind needs a supplemental blower. I'm still getting mine but something has to change. It has to be a simple fix.

I've taken 3 more trips in the S but no windshield fogging. So could have been that I didn't have the blower going fast enough or whatever. Never sure just what is going on with the controls. Favorite screen while driving is to choose the heater screen which leaves the top half black, and the heater screen is only half width centered on the bottom. But I'd still prefer graphics of 3 control knobs: TEMP, OUTLET, & FAN SPEED, just like the real knobs on my '12 Forester. Really, how hard would that be?? Then at a glance you could tell what the 'heater' set up was. With these kakamamie logic boxes who can tell at a glance what they mean?? [but I'm repeating myself once again . . . exit stage left]. :frown:
--

 

[Doug_G]

Tonight the temperature is floating around 0C, and it's raining (yes freezing rain - some side streets are deadly), really wet. Windshield didn't fog. My passenger side window kept fogging up, but not too badly. I cleared it once in a while by rolling it down and up again.

So again, the fog/frost problem combination seems to be sub-zero temperatures and extremely high humidity.

 

[stachler]

Tonight the temperature is floating around 0C, ..........so again, the fog/frost problem combination seems to be sub-zero temperatures and extremely high humidity.

In defrost mode, does the AC condenser kick on to remove the humidity?

 

[ModelS1079]

From what I've seen, the frosting issue only happens at cold temperatures with high humidity. If it's relatively dry, e.g. a sunny but cold day, then it's not an issue. If you're in a snowstorm at -20C then it's a big nuisance.

Agree and just wanted to note that cleaning the windows did help I believe, and most notably - simply opening climate, touching the "fresh air" button helps prevent fogging for me considerably. Should be obvious, but without defrost actually on, the air appears to be part fresh, part recirculating air. Fresh air is key to disbursing the humidity. And I really don't like to run defrost after the first minute or two in the car. Jerry33 please chime in

 

[Doug_G]

In defrost mode, does the AC condenser kick on to remove the humidity?

Yes, but only if it is not too cold. At -10C it does not turn on at all.

Agree and just wanted to note that cleaning the windows did help I believe, and most notably - simply opening climate, touching the "fresh air" button helps prevent fogging for me considerably. Should be obvious, but without defrost actually on, the air appears to be part fresh, part recirculating air. Fresh air is key to disbursing the humidity. And I really don't like to run defrost after the first minute or two in the car. Jerry33 please chime in

For defog I set all the controls to manual. Usually recirc off, A/C compressor on, air to windshield, fan 4-5.

 

[ModelS1079]

Yes, but only if it is not too cold. At -10C it does not turn on at all.



For defog I set all the controls to manual. Usually recirc off, A/C compressor on, air to windshield, fan 4-5.

...for preventing defog I use frsh air (not recic), AC off (unless fails), fan speed about 2.

 

[brianman]

Yes. However you get an error message all the time and a blinking icon - but it's not that annoying. Actually this is my situation as my TPMS are not configured properly with the car.

I think it's reasonable to ask Tesla to provide a setting that allows the owner to disable that message. I'm fine with them popping up dialogs and such to confirm (like they do for disabling Traction Control), but polluting the "alert" feedback channel to the user with stuff that's not useful is counterproductive.

Pat, if you agree can you report that concern to [email protected] w/r/t your experience? This kind of owner feedback often provides the devs formal justification for adding such settings. Thanks.

 

[mikevbf]

I think it's reasonable to ask Tesla to provide a setting that allows the owner to disable that message. I'm fine with them popping up dialogs and such to confirm (like they do for disabling Traction Control), but polluting the "alert" feedback channel to the user with stuff that's not useful is counterproductive.

Pat, if you agree can you report that concern to [email protected] w/r/t your experience? This kind of owner feedback often provides the devs formal justification for adding such settings. Thanks.

Did you know it is actually illegal for a car service to even allow a car built after 2007 to leave their facility without the TPMS functioning properly:
Tire Industry Association - The State of TPMS

 

[Doug_G]

...for preventing defog I use frsh air (not recic), AC off (unless fails), fan speed about 2.

That's what I said, recirc off. A/C should be on; if it's at or above freezing it will run the compressor some, which will dry out the air in the cabin and reduce fogging. Fan speed needs to be higher for very cold conditions to transfer enough heat to the windshield.

 

[ModelS1079]

Yes, thanks - I just meant that I only turn on the Ac when external air =vent is not enough. If I turn on the fan at like 2, fresh air w/o AC, right as I start the car and before it fogs up, it is often enough to prevent this. If not , AC goes on and fan speed goes up!

 

[Zapped]

Went for a drive tonight, -24C outside from warm garage. Some fogging on front window driver side in about 6" and side window.
Set the fan to 4, manual vents to front window and cabin ( not feet ) and closed the center cabin vents to direct more air to side windows.
Fog was gone in 4-5 minutes.
I know running air through a compressor will dry out air but then you're cooling and heating the air at the same time. (double drying effect I assume)
Not sure how much extra energy that would consume but might have no choice if the humidity is high to avoid fogging.
I've found that re-circ ON in any car adds to the fogging problem, unless the humidity outside is more than inside ..... may have overthunk this

 

[brianman]

Did you know it is actually illegal for a car service to even allow a car built after 2007 to leave their facility without the TPMS functioning properly:
Tire Industry Association - The State of TPMS

Interesting. I presume you mean "knowingly allow". Otherwise, anybody with a misfiring TPMS error could inadvertantly cause Tesla legal harm just by mentioning it publicly on the forum. Further, it seems likely that they have a pretty small window of time to get this misfiring warning fixed in the firmware before facing some fines or somesuch.

Misfiring - I'm not referring to Pat's case (where he doesn't have sensors), but rather folks that have the sensors and the firmware is reporting faults with Tesla saying "just ignore them for now".