Winter tire recommendations

[mswlogo]

Don't forget that Tesla choose the Michelin ice3 as their Canadian winter tire. So the
Pirelli is surely not the end all when it comes to approved tires. Why they didn't go with the Michelin for both is another mystery although I will say that in hard cornering with the ice3, they feel more "marshmello-y".

It’s probably what was the best deal they could cut was the largest influence.

 

[StealthP3D]

Don't forget that Tesla choose the Michelin ice3 as their Canadian winter tire. So the
Pirelli is surely not the end all when it comes to approved tires. Why they didn't go with the Michelin for both is another mystery although I will say that in hard cornering with the ice3, they feel more "marshmello-y".

To be clear, I'm not claiming the Pirelli's are the end all, the best, the only winter tire, simply countering the uninformed narrative, repeated endlessly by the same three or four people, that they are not a real winter tire, that they only work in 1-2 inches of Texas snow or they are essentially an "all-weather" tire and not worth considering for anyone who has a real winter.

But yeah, they don't have that "marshmello-y" driving feel that feels like that bad dream in which you can't get away from the monster. And they work very well on the Model 3, thanks in part to it's already excellent winter driving dynamics and electronic traction and stability controls. If anyone tells you there are only two really good winter tires in the world, run, don't walk, away.

 

[StealthP3D]

I totally agree. I’m pretty sure they are it for a high speed rated winter tire. I would also say the fact that they are the only winter tire that come on the size to fit the 20” P3 tire size was a pretty large factor as well.

Except it's not a "fact" that they are the only winter tire that fits the 20" Model 3 rims.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/michelin-pilot-alpin-pa4/p/25451

 

[coleAK]

Except it's not a "fact" that they are the only winter tire that fits the 20" Model 3 rims.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/michelin-pilot-alpin-pa4/p/25451

That is not a studless snow/ice tire. More of a performance winter/all weather. For Michelin the xIce is their best studless winter tire and it doesn't come in this size. Neither does the Blizzak, Conti Viking/ice, or Hakka’s. Heck The pirelli scorpion’s which would have been a better pirelli option for a studless snow/ice winter tire don’t come in this size.

And this has been beaten into the ground, and then beaten again, and again, and again. I’m done...

And again in the pacific NW you don’t get much ice, get fresh snow often and tend to get big grippy snow flakes. I was at Crystal with my kids for the FIS race last month and did great in a rental forester on all season tires.

 

[mswlogo]

That is not a studless snow/ice tire. More of a performance winter/all weather. For Michelin the xIce is their best studless winter tire and it doesn't come in this size. Neither does the Blizzak, Conti Viking/ice, or Hakka’s. Heck The pirelli scorpion’s which would have been a better pirelli option for a studless snow/ice winter tire don’t come in this size.

And this has been beaten into the ground, and then beaten again, and again, and again. I’m done...

And again in the pacific NW you don’t get much ice, get fresh snow often and tend to get big grippy snow flakes. I was at Crystal with my kids for the FIS race last month and did great in a rental forester on all season tires.

Yeah, I think only "Performance Snows" come in that size. Not surprising because that size screams performance.

 

[bhzmark]

some relevant info from when I looked into this a while back:

if you value convenience get the Pirelli Sottozero either from Tesla or from TireRack shipped to Tesla, and have Tesla mount and balance them. If you ever need the Tesla SC to deal with your tires, they will work with their OEM wheels and tires, but not non-OEM wheels or tires.

Any winter tire is way better than any All season.

I don't know of any real evidence that there is significant difference between Sottozero3 and Xice/Nokian R2. There could be some, but they are all much better than all seasons. And to the extent the performance winter tires (and Nokian WRG3) give up a little snow and ice traction, they may be better in cold dry/wet traction.

Sottzero 3 have good reviews, but do trade some snow/ice performance for better cold pavement wet and dry performance: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=181

and Nokian's have great wet and dry performance in exchange for some snow and ice performance:

consumer's reports has a good recent test of tires including the rolling resistance. Product & Services | Ratings & Reviews - Consumer Reports

The tires with the top rating rolling resistance are:

Michelin X-ICE
Nokian R2 (Nokian is a little noisier -- otherwise tied with X-ICE)

These two tires also happened to be the top rated winter tires overall.

Nikian WRG3 and Blizzak were two ratings down on rolling resistance

Pirelli Sottozero Winter 240 Serie II was one rating down on rolling resistance and very noisy but excellent snow traction. Only the WRG3 had better dry and wet braking performance.

X-ICE and WRG3 were the quietest tires.

Giving up a little snow and ice traction for much better wet and dry braking and a quieter tire makes the WRG3 look like a great option. Wish the rolling resistance were better.

A few selected highlights for tires often discussed here are below. Better to see the full article at Product & Services | Ratings & Reviews - Consumer Reports

2014 AutoBild 235 35 R19 Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

Winter tyre reviews 2016/2017: results by category

2015 Auto Bild Performance Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

2013 Auto Bild Sports Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

 

[StealthP3D]

That is not a studless snow/ice tire. More of a performance winter/all weather.

Got doublespeak?

You originally claimed Tesla chose the Sottozero's because they are the only winter tire to fit the 20" Performance rims:

I totally agree. I’m pretty sure they are it for a high speed rated winter tire. I would also say the fact that they are the only winter tire that come on the size to fit the 20” P3 tire size was a pretty large factor as well.

When I showed you another tire in the same classification (Performance Winter) that fits the 20" rims, you pivot and claim they are not a true "studless ice/snow tire". Well, neither are the Sottozero's that Tesla speciified, they are a studless winter tire or more specifically, a studless performance winter tire. Just like the Michelin Pilot Alpin's PA4's (which are not "all-weather tires" because they can't be run in the summer heat).

In summary:
You can leave all-weather tires on all year round. They are essentially an all-season radial with a bias to cooler temperatures. Contrast that with winter tires, all tires in the "Winter" classification must be removed when winter is over. That is a defining difference.

You are under the mistaken impression that Performance Winter tires are All-Weather tires. I'll direct you to these links so you can learn the difference between a Winter Tire and an All-Weather Tire:

https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/docs...re-really-such-a-thing-as-an-all-weather-tire

And this link also has some info that could clear up some of your misconceptions about studded tires (from previous discussions we've had):

Winter Tires Buying Guide - Do I Need Snow Tires?

No skier that I know of uses "all-weather" tires in the North Cascades because they are not up to the kind off severe mountain storms we get around here. And, due to elevation changes, we get just about every condition imaginable, often in the same drive. You really need to learn the difference between winter and all-weather tires before you start recommending them to someone else who also doesn't know any better.

Now I've guided the horse to the water, but I can't make him drink it. That is up to the horse.

 

[coleAK]

When I showed you another tire in the same classification (Performance Winter) that fits the 20" rims, you pivot and claim they are not a true "studless ice/snow tire". Well, neither are the Sottozero's that Tesla speciified, they are a studless winter tire or more specifically, a studless performance winter tire.

You just agreed with me and justified the point I’ve been trying to make this entire time. That Tesla did not chose a top tier dedicated winter tire in the Sottozero for their winter tire package.

No skier that I know of uses "all-weather" tires in the North Cascades because they are not up to the kind off severe mountain storms we get around here. And, due to elevation changes, we get just about every condition imaginable, often in the same drive. You really need to learn the difference between winter and all-weather tires before you start recommending them to someone else who also doesn't know any better.

So what about all the RVs up there every weekend? There must have been 40 class A motorhomes in the parking lot at the Crystal race last month and some class C’s and TT’s. I know Stevens pass has plenty of RV hookups as well as Bachelor, Baker, and Hood. They all running dedicated snow tires? And almost every ski company factory support 4x4 conversion van rig I noticed was on BFG KO2’s.

 

[StealthP3D]

You just agreed with me and justified the point I’ve been trying to make this entire time. That Tesla did not chose a top tier dedicated winter tire in the Sottozero for their winter tire package.

The Pirellis are most certainly a top tier winter tire. And there are different categories of winter tires, something you seem confused about. It seems it is more important for you to be right about something than it is to learn anything. That's what this is about, isn't it?

So what about all the RVs up there every weekend? There must have been 40 class A motorhomes in the parking lot at the Crystal race last month and some class C’s and TT’s. I know Stevens pass has plenty of RV hookups as well as Bachelor, Baker, and Hood. They all running dedicated snow tires? And almost every ski company factory support 4x4 conversion van rig I noticed was on BFG KO2’s.

Apparently, you are unaware that Crystal Mountain Resort is not in the North Cascades. Neither is Stevens, Mt. Bachelor or Mt. Hood. Mt. Baker is in the North Cascades and they have exactly zero RV hookups. It's a State Highway so as long as there are no road restrictions in place you can drive an RV up there (at your own risk of course) and it's mandatory to carry chains, even if your RV is AWD and has winter tires. But there are no hook-ups. I've seen RV's stuck at Mt. Baker for over a month due to non-stop storms preventing departure. The thing got buried in the corner of the parking lot and had to get dug out in March.

But I'm not sure where you are going with this other than displaying your lack of Washngton/Oregon geography and climatology. This is a winter tire recommendations thread, I suggest you learn more about the differences between Winter and All-Weather tires before recommending (or not) tires that you've never driven on and know nothing about. Really.

 

[SWPenn]

What are folks thinking of doing for winter tires? Tesla has a 19" Pirelli package for sale. Are you thinking of going that route, if so why? Are you thinking of going another route, if so why? I have traditionally stuck with Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires on our current vehicles but have not really done any digging to

I’m using Sottozero3’s and they’re excellent. Handle fine on dry pavement and very grippy on sleet.

 

[SWPenn]

What are folks thinking of doing for winter tires? Tesla has a 19" Pirelli package for sale. Are you thinking of going that route, if so why? Are you thinking of going another route, if so why? I have traditionally stuck with Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires on our current vehicles but have not really done any digging to

I’m using Sottozero3’s and they’re excellent. Handle fine on dry pavement and very grippy on sleet.

 

[shellderp]

some relevant info from when I looked into this a while back:

if you value convenience get the Pirelli Sottozero either from Tesla or from TireRack shipped to Tesla, and have Tesla mount and balance them. If you ever need the Tesla SC to deal with your tires, they will work with their OEM wheels and tires, but not non-OEM wheels or tires.

Any winter tire is way better than any All season.

I don't know of any real evidence that there is significant difference between Sottozero3 and Xice/Nokian R2. There could be some, but they are all much better than all seasons. And to the extent the performance winter tires (and Nokian WRG3) give up a little snow and ice traction, they may be better in cold dry/wet traction.

Sottzero 3 have good reviews, but do trade some snow/ice performance for better cold pavement wet and dry performance: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=181

and Nokian's have great wet and dry performance in exchange for some snow and ice performance:

consumer's reports has a good recent test of tires including the rolling resistance. Product & Services | Ratings & Reviews - Consumer Reports

The tires with the top rating rolling resistance are:

Michelin X-ICE
Nokian R2 (Nokian is a little noisier -- otherwise tied with X-ICE)

These two tires also happened to be the top rated winter tires overall.

Nikian WRG3 and Blizzak were two ratings down on rolling resistance

Pirelli Sottozero Winter 240 Serie II was one rating down on rolling resistance and very noisy but excellent snow traction. Only the WRG3 had better dry and wet braking performance.

X-ICE and WRG3 were the quietest tires.

Giving up a little snow and ice traction for much better wet and dry braking and a quieter tire makes the WRG3 look like a great option. Wish the rolling resistance were better.

A few selected highlights for tires often discussed here are below. Better to see the full article at Product & Services | Ratings & Reviews - Consumer Reports

2014 AutoBild 235 35 R19 Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

Winter tyre reviews 2016/2017: results by category

2015 Auto Bild Performance Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

2013 Auto Bild Sports Winter Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews

how about the nokian WRG4?

 

[dark cloud]

how about the nokian WRG4?

User opinions / Nokian WR G4 - All-Weather tire / Nokian Tires

 

[Merle]

TL;DR: Ordered some Toyo Celsius 245/45-19's for winter tires to swap out the 21 ones on right now for next season. They're mountain and snowflake rated which is what matters the most when trying to pick out a snow tire that works in a variety of conditions.

Even on summer tires, Pilot Sport AS tires, you can still drive in snow conditions that warrant chains - simply by going slow.

Around April of this year, I drove from Denver over Vail Pass to Salt Lake city during one of those late season storms. It wasn't so bad over Vail, even though the Colorado folks had the east bound traffic shut down, and just opened the west bound traffic over the pass. Lots of slush, but temperatures were low.

Heading up Highway 6 to SLC was a bit more tricky, there weren't any lane markings and it was impossible to see the road. I'd estimate about a bit over an inch on the road. Maybe 2-3" maximum.

I live in Tahoe, 10+ years up Kingsbury Grade (if you know where Heavenly is, I'm up that way across the street near the top) which gets massive amounts of snow, roughly 9' this year with a snow shower as recent as this Memorial Day weekend. We have sections that are 6-9% grades, with several curves that are 180 degrees.

California does have chain controls, particularly over places like Echo Summit. Took those same tires over the same chain control conditions (late at night, about 2A) to figure out how bad they could. Felt wheel slip about three times, but the light only came on once after I gunned it around Sierra (lots of room to correct) to get the light to come on.

The point is that nearly any tire, even summer tires, can get you there if you stick to the main roads. Just go slow (10-15MPH) and understand the consequences of failure.

I do get stuck, even with 4WD, locking diffs, GYSA (tires with Mountain and snowflakes) ... twice this year, 10' and 50' going down my street out of the driveway. Even with "great" tires, and equipment, it's simply not enough if you screw around too much. I drive not only in the mountains, but down to CA and valleys, so need a tire that can not only handle the snow / ice / slush but also handle the heat.

 

[meomyo]

THE SOTTOZER0 3 was a decent tire in bad winter conditions but the issue is they only lasted us 1 season in colorado as the weather here in winter is mild mostly and it can warm up to 60's for months without snow= tire wear +10. Was led down by the wear and snows have no tread wear warranty.

 

[coleAK]

THE SOTTOZER0 3 was a decent tire in bad winter conditions but the issue is they only lasted us 1 season in colorado as the weather here in winter is mild mostly and it can warm up to 60's for months without snow= tire wear +10. Was led down by the wear and snows have no tread wear warranty.

I know many people up here that put on a new set of Blizzaks every winter (thanks Costco). I got 8 winters out of the Nokian Hakka 5 on our old MBe320 4 matic. Put Hakka 9’s on the model 3.

 

[shellderp]

THE SOTTOZER0 3 was a decent tire in bad winter conditions but the issue is they only lasted us 1 season in colorado as the weather here in winter is mild mostly and it can warm up to 60's for months without snow= tire wear +10. Was led down by the wear and snows have no tread wear warranty.

maybe all weathers like nokian wrg would work well for your climate?

 

[Lex]

THE SOTTOZER0 3 was a decent tire in bad winter conditions but the issue is they only lasted us 1 season in colorado as the weather here in winter is mild mostly and it can warm up to 60's for months without snow= tire wear +10. Was led down by the wear and snows have no tread wear warranty.

Ya I was shocked at how low the tread was when I pulled them off after their 2nd year. I'll likely put them on again for the coming Toronto winter for one last go, as we usually don't get hit by major storms, just for the improved control in slick and icy conditions, but that would be it. I expected at least 3 good seasons, and over 4 ideally, before replacement.

 

[meomyo]

maybe all weathers like nokian wrg would work well for your climate?

I am going with the nokian g4- giving them a try(just ordered) - need all seasons and snows now(both sets worn) and dont want to spend 2200 on tires so just gonna try all weathers on 1 set. If i need snows later in season i can look into others i guess.

 

[meomyo]

the new model blizzek ws90 is supposed to be the bomb!!!!

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Blizzak+WS90