With people experiencing battery life degradation that frustrates them I'm wondering how many of you would prefer to lease a battery on a monthly basis instead of buy? I would, because you could always return the battery to Tesla at the end of the lease and get a new one. They could recycle it. Tesla could make a bit of money, our upfront cost would be cheaper and no degradation that is permanent or meaningful.
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Interest concept, but at current time - batteries are just too darn expensive. How expensive you may ask- about $500 for every KW. That would make a 85 KW battery $42,000. Image if the Tesla Model S only had a lets say... $15,000 battery instead of $42,000; that would be a significant difference in price. To be exact a $27,000. Essentially making a Model S a car available to the masses (kinda).
Once batteries become cheaper and older batteries after lets say 10 + years of service in a Model S; then there will be use for people purchasing new / used batteries. And possibly a leasing program of the batteries and not the car. That would be interesting - purchasing the car and leasing the batteries.
Once batteries become cheaper and older batteries after lets say 10 + years of service in a Model S; then there will be use for people purchasing new / used batteries. And possibly a leasing program of the batteries and not the car. That would be interesting - purchasing the car and leasing the batteries.
Ven Rala
Member
I would rather lease the battery. Regarding mileage limitations, penalties for abuse, etc: Tesla has already guaranteed the battery for 8 years irregardless of how the owner treats it, so they are already taking full responsibility for it, so I don't see the lease increasing their risk much.
Actually - I thought the same thing as you, but I was told differently by multiple people who said that this is actually false. Tesla does not guarantee the batteries for degradation purposes. Check out this post: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ppy-with-drop-in-maximum-charged-range/page12 and continue reading on.
If I could write it off as a business expense, then leasing is the way to go because there's no question about how much you can deduct. Otherwise buying is better. This is no different than the rest of the car.
Since Tesla should be able to refresh battery packs at a considerably lower price than purchasing a completely new battery pack - providing a policy to allow owners to swap batteries would alleviate concerns about being hit by a major cost for high mileage cars that eventually MAY see enough range loss to impact usage.
This is probably the only area where the Model S may have a significant disadvantage over ICEs.
This is probably the only area where the Model S may have a significant disadvantage over ICEs.
I don't think leasing batteries is the answer. If you look at what Renault/Nissan did, you'll find out that :
- Renault EV sold to business with leased batteries are selling well (Renault Kangoo Z.E.)
- Renault EV sold to individuals with leased batteries are not selling so well (Renault ZoE, Renault Twizy (even though this one is "special"))
- Nissan EV sold to individuals without leased batteries do sell well (Leaf)
Renault batteries are leased EUR 960/year for 12500km - if you want to do 20000km/year, it'll be EUR 1224/year an so on... That's about $1700 for 12500 miles per year - when you know the Nissan Leaf cells can be bought for ~$5000, this looks like a rip-off...
I think that battery leasing is a move to:
- Keep pumping revenues from customers (no more oil change, timing belt etc.)
- Kill the 2nd hand market (nobody's gonna buy a 5 years old car with a $100 eternal lease on the battery)
- Force vehicule renewal (in a few years: do you want his old crappy car with 100 miles range with $100/m battery lease or this brand new shiny one with 200miles range and $70 battery lease?)
I own a Renault ZoE without a battery lease (really hard to find, especially in France...), which is a pretty nice little car (43kW 3 phase charging, Heat Pump, Battery is thermally managed...) but I'm really happy Tesla's here, big auto manufacturers are a pain in the ass, their EV are overpriced (for what they are), do not have enough range and are sold through dealers that hide them in the back of the shop because they don't and won't make money on it... If that was not enough, comes the battery lease on it - that makes their EV (Nissan/Renault) more expensive to use (per km) that their diesel equivalent. I wonder why they're not selling...
- Renault EV sold to business with leased batteries are selling well (Renault Kangoo Z.E.)
- Renault EV sold to individuals with leased batteries are not selling so well (Renault ZoE, Renault Twizy (even though this one is "special"))
- Nissan EV sold to individuals without leased batteries do sell well (Leaf)
Renault batteries are leased EUR 960/year for 12500km - if you want to do 20000km/year, it'll be EUR 1224/year an so on... That's about $1700 for 12500 miles per year - when you know the Nissan Leaf cells can be bought for ~$5000, this looks like a rip-off...
I think that battery leasing is a move to:
- Keep pumping revenues from customers (no more oil change, timing belt etc.)
- Kill the 2nd hand market (nobody's gonna buy a 5 years old car with a $100 eternal lease on the battery)
- Force vehicule renewal (in a few years: do you want his old crappy car with 100 miles range with $100/m battery lease or this brand new shiny one with 200miles range and $70 battery lease?)
I own a Renault ZoE without a battery lease (really hard to find, especially in France...), which is a pretty nice little car (43kW 3 phase charging, Heat Pump, Battery is thermally managed...) but I'm really happy Tesla's here, big auto manufacturers are a pain in the ass, their EV are overpriced (for what they are), do not have enough range and are sold through dealers that hide them in the back of the shop because they don't and won't make money on it... If that was not enough, comes the battery lease on it - that makes their EV (Nissan/Renault) more expensive to use (per km) that their diesel equivalent. I wonder why they're not selling...
Speaking of mistreatment ...
Aaaaaand, back to topic.
No, but I'd listen to a good trade in. Given my driving patterns I'll not use the additional range in my Model E that much, so I'd likely want to keep it well into the degradation period. But if maximizing overall value from the battery (car+grid storage) meant they could offer me a good trade-in deal I might sell it early.
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If you think Tesla batteries are $500/kWh you're calling JB Straubel and Elon Musk liars.
What makes some sense about battery leasing is that you can lower the purchase price comparable to ICEs and mentally the lease payment can be equivalent to buying gas. So many people have a hard time with $80k car but buy a gas guzzling $50k car with a higher or comparable TCO.
So if the 85 Tesla with tech package was $50k with a $2k per year battery lease, there would be more takers (not that it matters now but if they could manage 100k production today).
With a Leaf, I assume somewhere around 1k per year battery depreciation. Basically offsets gas cost. Since battery depreciation is a big unknown, a lease makes a lot of sense.
So if the 85 Tesla with tech package was $50k with a $2k per year battery lease, there would be more takers (not that it matters now but if they could manage 100k production today).
With a Leaf, I assume somewhere around 1k per year battery depreciation. Basically offsets gas cost. Since battery depreciation is a big unknown, a lease makes a lot of sense.
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