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Krugerrand
Meow
With anything, you can't please everyone. If not having the busy compartments to store your whole life in your car is that disruptive to you, and you simply can't wrap your brain around 'adding' a storage unit of your choice at a later date, (which was the result of a group of people wanting that storage component - what other car company does that for it's customers?!) then by all means don't buy the car. It's really that simple. The complaining about it ad nauseum is well, nauseating. I say get over it already.
Personally (I'm not the person you were directly replying to), I'm fine with the open space on the floor.
What I hadn't realized before Sunday was that the big box between the front seats offers no storage. I don't understand that. It also offers no rear seat cupholders. Again, I'd expect some unfolding or pop out cup holders coming out of that box for the back seat occupants.
I guess that's my point: I don't want Tesla to put a new box on the floor between the seats. I want them to make the existing box useful rather than what currently seems like a big waste of space.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Yes, on way too many occasions, I've seen several folks at the stores and at test drive events try in vain to lift up the center arm rests after sliding them back to reveal the cupholders. Still a mystery as to why the armrests are split rather than be a single plank if they cannot be individually lifted up/sideways - I suppose one of the cupholders can be revealed independent of the other. The explanation for that box is that it houses the ducts for the rear vents; but, it's too big for just that...
epley
P85 VIN 693
@derek75 Sounds like you really liked the car. I wouldn't let a lack of a few cupholders and a poorly designed center console stop you from buying a great driving experience!
epley
P85 VIN 693
I agree with brianman. Car earlier. I don't get the fuss about compartment/lack of compartment. Aftermarket and Tesla solutions will arise if you want this stuff. I prefer the minimalist interior, allowing me to customize as I see fit instead of cramming someone else's idea of a perfect interior down my throat.
strider
Active Member
My guess is this is in your head (unless you have some data to back this up). It's because you have spent years (decades?) with the sound of a high-performance ICE so when the sound is taken away your mind thinks you're driving a slow car. Fast ICEs are violent machines. They roar and jerk and lurch as the engine races and gears slam. You equate that violence with speed. The numbers don't lie - Model S is fast but it's also smooth which feels slow to you.
When I give people rides in my Roadster, I get one of 2 reactions. If the person has never been in a fast car, the initial off-the-line pull really impresses them. However if they've driven fast ICE's, the impression comes when they expect the pause for the 1-2 shift that never comes - the car just keeps pulling. That's when the EV light goes on for them along w/ the instant acceleration at nearly any speed - no needing to downshift.
I don't think it's just the sound. I genuinely think that my car presses me harder into the seat. It's just that it only does that in 1st gear after the supercharger is adding extra air into the engine. How long does it take to shift gears from 1st to 2nd? a fraction of a second, but acceleration is zero when the clutch is in. Let's say it takes 0.3s to shift. and now let's add in that the ICE output is much more variable, and I think it would be hard to see how a steady output electric engine doing 0-60 in 4.4s could possibly have the same maximum acceleration as a highly variable ICE doing 0-60 in 4.8s.
Don't get me wrong, I love that the power is always there. I love that there's no whiplash when going from 1st to 2nd. If I had to choose between a car that could do 0-60 in 4.4s smoothly or a car that could do 0-60s in 4.4s with an ugly sawtooth acceleration pattern (including some time at zero acceleration), I would certainly choose the former. But the smooth one has a much lower peak acceleration and feels less like an amusement park ride.
Actually, in retrospect, the supercharger doesn't enter into it. My car's fastest acceleration is near 0mph (assuming the tires stick), and it gets slower from there.
The important factors are low RPM torque, vehicle weight, and gear ratio (including tire diameter). My car has a much more favorable gear ratio than the Model S, so it can accelerate faster to 30mph. Then I've got a lull for the gear shift. and then from 30 to 60, the Model S should beat my car hands down.
Anyway, my point remains: a typical ICE has lower acceleration in 2nd gear, so therefore it will have faster acceleration in 1st gear to get the same 0-60 time.
Tommy
Member
Sounds good in theory, and if I may quote the great Yogi Berra:
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.":wink:
A common saying in the EV world is that "we have max torque at 0 RPM."
What that really says is that they can get away with a car that is effectively in what you might say is like "4th gear all the time."
A gas engine stuck with that gearing would be overburdened and would accelerate very poorly from a stop.
That the EV can even hold its' own off the line against the gas car (with multiple gears) says a lot about EV benefits.
If someone were to put a multi-speed transmission on a car like the Model S it would be "no contest" and off the line acceleration could be able to best basically anything.
They don't do that (though) because it would hurt efficiency and makes the vehicle more complex.
They accept a slight compromise in off the line performance in exchange for making many other things about the driving behavior superior.
What that really says is that they can get away with a car that is effectively in what you might say is like "4th gear all the time."
A gas engine stuck with that gearing would be overburdened and would accelerate very poorly from a stop.
That the EV can even hold its' own off the line against the gas car (with multiple gears) says a lot about EV benefits.
If someone were to put a multi-speed transmission on a car like the Model S it would be "no contest" and off the line acceleration could be able to best basically anything.
They don't do that (though) because it would hurt efficiency and makes the vehicle more complex.
They accept a slight compromise in off the line performance in exchange for making many other things about the driving behavior superior.
SByer
'08 #383
So, so superior...
They 'microgrind' the freeways around here as they fix them up - an EV on a microground highway surface is just sublime...
Yeah, I get that an ICE car occasionally punches you back into the seat more, but that it's done so inconsistently and accentuated by the times when it isn't, like shifting gears, is just so f'd up. Doing 0-65 runs in the 911 was fun, to be sure. In the Roadster, it's just a blast.
ophthodawg
Member
I thoroughly enjoyed my test drive of the Model S in Palo this July 15th. Here is a silly trailer clip I made. Please excuse the poor audio and editing quality. my first experience using iMovie...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYK5BhtsgE&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBYK5BhtsgE&feature=g-upl
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Fair enough. If we had all been driving electric cars for 100 years, and then some joker came out with an ICE that required shifting and had such a crazy torque curve, we'd all laugh that company out of business.
My original point, though, was that the punch into the seat was less than I was expecting. and then I went on to say that I loved the always-available power.
Derek
goyogi
Member
It should be a little better in the Model S then. Since 0-60 for the performance edition is 4.4 seconds but the 1/4 mile time is 12.6 seconds which is the same as the roadster sport. So it catches up in the higher speeds. And if it's true that they improved the 70-90mph acceleration by 20% as stated in the USA Today article then the 1/4 mile may be even better. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/story/2012-06-25/tesla-luxury-sedan-elon-musk/55846148/1
strider
Active Member
I agree. But I daily drive my Roadster and I accelerate from 0-60 way more than I accelerate from 60-90 or whatever. Also I don't have to downshift which helps the overall performance - ie if I need to pounce into an open space on the freeway I can do that easier in the Tesla than I could in my manual Corvette even though the Corvette accelerates more quickly at high speed (assuming it's in the correct gear).
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