OK Guys: I've seen other threads about this, but can't get the answer I'm looking for. I bought the original BMW i3 and was horrified by the 32 miles per 100% I was getting. I understand that someone might want a better battery from my car if I sell it down the road, but 310 is what I paid for. With that said, what are the negatives of charging to 100%? How many miles lifetime could I expect if I always did 100% to 0% on the battery? And if I am honest about this with a next buyer, why is this a problem? BTW, I have the M3 Performance. Thanks Guys. -David
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100% Charging - Negatives
- Thread starter DSMLVNV
- Start date
Is Charging to 100% every night really that bad?
Just charge it to 100% if you want. No one is stopping you. Go for it.
Just charge it to 100% if you want. No one is stopping you. Go for it.
310 miles is just a reference number and will vary with terrain, wind, temperature, driving habits and so on. It's good when comparing it to different cars but that's all.
The 0-100% charge will add 1-3% extra degradation per year. Plus you are in a hot climate, which won't help either. So your best interest is to stay below 90%. And go up to 100% on road trips. Why would 100% charge matter in the city anyway?
Just an example:
the usual degradation is like 4-5% in the first year and 1-2% in the second. So the battery will be somewhere at 93% - 95% after 2 years.
Now if I add the extra 1%-2% degradation the battery will be somewhere between 89% and 93% at the end of the 2nd year.
This is based on a similar NCA cell I saw a report on. Tesla battery might be slightly different.
mtndrew1
Active Member
You accelerate degradation and simultaneously lose regen for the first ~20 miles of driving by charging to 100% every day.
If you don’t need the extra range on a given day it’s in your best interest to charge to 90%. Once the battery degradation takes place it cannot be reversed, giving you a permanently reduced capacity. Every 1% lost to degradation is 3 miles of range permanently lost per charge.
Of course charge to 100 when you actually need the range.
If you don’t need the extra range on a given day it’s in your best interest to charge to 90%. Once the battery degradation takes place it cannot be reversed, giving you a permanently reduced capacity. Every 1% lost to degradation is 3 miles of range permanently lost per charge.
Of course charge to 100 when you actually need the range.
Do you drive 310 miles every day? If so, go for it.
If you drive less, and want to try to pamper the battery a little, then charge to 80% or 90%. Would it make a difference in your lifestyle?
I was travelling this week and I've had it set for 100%, But now that you remind me, I'm going to decrease it back down to 80%. I actually go for many days on a 80%
If you drive less, and want to try to pamper the battery a little, then charge to 80% or 90%. Would it make a difference in your lifestyle?
I was travelling this week and I've had it set for 100%, But now that you remind me, I'm going to decrease it back down to 80%. I actually go for many days on a 80%
The entire battery management system is there helping you avoid degradation if you use it according to recommendations. Those recommendations include: plug in every night if you can, charge to 90% or less for normal daily driving, charge to 100% just before a long drive. That last one is serious. If used right, Tesla batteries really do not lose material capacity over the years. I have a 6 year old Model S and it has lost 5% capacity... almost all of that in the first year. However, if you charge to 100% routinely, I guarantee you are going to make that worse. How much worse, I do not know. I would expect much worse. For goodness sake, why do you want to?
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Kinda like the guy that buys a car that can go 0-60 in 5 seconds and then does that at every stop light as he "paid for that capacity"
He will soon slow down when he sees how little mileage he gets out of his rear tires and all the tickets he is getting.
Best to just charge to 90% and not run down below 10% on a routine basis.
When you need all that range, it is there for you. Just be judicious when you use it.
He will soon slow down when he sees how little mileage he gets out of his rear tires and all the tickets he is getting.
Best to just charge to 90% and not run down below 10% on a routine basis.
When you need all that range, it is there for you. Just be judicious when you use it.
OK so 2 things...
1 - How do you check your battery’s capacity?
2- I am in a unique situation maybe. Right now I’m at an apartment complex which won’t allow charging. Nearest Tesla station is 6 miles away. I don’t want to have to drive 12 miles just to charge and not be able to go to 100%. A bit annoying. So tell me what I’m doing wrong so that I can see the error in my mindset. Am I going to end up with a battery that only charges to 50% in 3 years? I need to know actual downsides in specific. Thanks.
1 - How do you check your battery’s capacity?
2- I am in a unique situation maybe. Right now I’m at an apartment complex which won’t allow charging. Nearest Tesla station is 6 miles away. I don’t want to have to drive 12 miles just to charge and not be able to go to 100%. A bit annoying. So tell me what I’m doing wrong so that I can see the error in my mindset. Am I going to end up with a battery that only charges to 50% in 3 years? I need to know actual downsides in specific. Thanks.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Prudent thing to do is just charge your battery up to 90% at the Supercharger. Will be easy on your battery, plus that last 10% takes a long time to achieve.
Only charge to 100% when you will absolutely need that range.
Also do not run your battery down to it's last few miles before charging. For the same reasons.
This is something all EV drivers soon learn and become comfortable with.
Kind like running your ICE vehicle down to it's last drop. Most take up sooner to prevent the possibility of running out on the road. Also similar of standing at the gas pump clicking the lever over and over, trying to get that last ounce of fuel into the tank and up the filler pipe.
Only charge to 100% when you will absolutely need that range.
Also do not run your battery down to it's last few miles before charging. For the same reasons.
This is something all EV drivers soon learn and become comfortable with.
Kind like running your ICE vehicle down to it's last drop. Most take up sooner to prevent the possibility of running out on the road. Also similar of standing at the gas pump clicking the lever over and over, trying to get that last ounce of fuel into the tank and up the filler pipe.
OK. I still don’t understand why nobody on this forum will just tell me what the overall negative will be if, hypothetically, I charged to 100% every time I was at a supercharger which is maybe once a week, and I went down to about 10% every time. If that were the case, am I going to have a battery that’s useless in three years? Am I going to have a car that only charges to a capacity of 160 miles? I just want real world numbers of the damage I would be doing.
Nobody can give you the numbers because nobody knows the numbers.
There isn't much known about degradation on tesla's batteries but overall they perform better than average.
It depends on cycles life.
Usually Li-ion batteries have a life of around 300-400 cycles, so charging every week from 10 to100% gives you more than 300 weeks before the capacity Drops below 80%.
Of course Tesla batteries aren't like average Li-ion cells so who knows?
There isn't much known about degradation on tesla's batteries but overall they perform better than average.
It depends on cycles life.
Usually Li-ion batteries have a life of around 300-400 cycles, so charging every week from 10 to100% gives you more than 300 weeks before the capacity Drops below 80%.
Of course Tesla batteries aren't like average Li-ion cells so who knows?
If you charge to 100% every time you charge, I believe even the screen in your car will tell you to basically stop doing it. If you continue, its highly likely that if you have an issue with your battery in the future that telsa would not cover it, because you abused your battery against the recommendations in the manual.
Thats one risk.
You are getting answers, you just dont seem to like the ones you are getting. People are telling you to not do it. Tesla itself says only charge to 100% for long trips (which people dont do every time they charge).
I saw a youtube video of a salesperson who charged his model s to maximum all the time, and had to have the battery replaced under warranty inside of a few years. If I remember correctly, he said he was specifically told by tesla that charging to 100% all the time was not healthy for the battery.
You seem to want a number like "it will damage it by 12%" or something, so you can make a decision on whether that works for you. Thats why I said just do what you want. People are telling you that its not recommended. Tesla is telling you its not recommended. What actually happens likely depends on your usage patterns, the temperature, etc so they likely can not TELL you that "it will be XX damage over YY years guaranteed. Could be nothing, could be a lot. Only thing we know is that the manufacturer tells you SPECIFICALLY not to do it.
The other thing we know is, we all bought our cars so you can do with it what you want, and deal with whatever consequences happens "later" which it sounds like you want to do.
Thats why I said "why not do what you want?"
It means that a new 100kwh battery Will only have 80kwh of capacity left when fully charged after the degradation.
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