But they know not to charge to 100% and yet they did it when you didn't even request them to do it. And while most people charge their phones to 100% daily even though the same battery degradation occurs, it can be replaced at a much lower cost and often people just buy a new phone every few years.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Yet another 100% charging question
- Thread starter canbonbon
- Start date
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
You have completely made up this “not to charge to 100%” stuff.
There is nothing anywhere that says not to charge to 100% whenever you want to or need to. They did this guy a favor and gave him a tank of free gas for the drive home. Sounds like great service to me, but you’re acting like they irreparably harmed his battery. That’s nonsense. It’s not taboo. It’s not harmful.
No, I did not make this up. Apparently you haven't watched the interview with Dr Jeff Dahn, who's an expert on the Lithium Ion battery. But yeah you charge to 100% whenever you want, and it will cause degradation sooner. And what that means is a reduction in range and paying more to charge. It's not nonsense, but it is harmful to the overall battery health charging to 100% all the time.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Nobody said “all the time.” You said Tesla “knows better” than to charge a battery to 100%. I stand by my assertion that’s nonsense and sends the complete wrong message to new owners. If it was as harmful and taboo as you’re letting on, they wouldn’t let you do it.
Yes, Tesla does know better and should ask a new owner if they want a 100% charge. New owners need to be educated not pampered. Charging to 100% is harmful in the long run for battery health, that's just a fact for Lithium Ion batteries. When I had my Model 3 it lost 30 miles of range in 4 years, which isn't too bad but, it could have been less had I not charged it to 100% so frequently. Tesla had to make a compromise as not to scare people away from EV's, so of course they won't say not to charge to 100%. If you need to charge to 100% then by all means go ahead, just don't do it daily. I stand by the data, because science doesn't care what you believe.
That’s because you don’t replace your car as often as your phone. My iPhone batteries are *sugar* after a little over a year charging to 100%. I immediately use the new feature to only charge to 80%. Still at 100% capacity. I’d normally see it starting to drop by now.
I normally charge my car to 80% and only to 90 or 100% just before leaving.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Someone better tell Tesla these “facts” before someone gets hurt…
The real facts are that the difference in degradation when comparing different levels of high SoC storage are almost totally negligible. Particularly at mild ambient temps. The difference in degradation between 80%, 90%, and 100% at 25c (77f) for NCA lithium ion cells is really really small - basically imperceptible. LFP is even better.
Scaring new owners with battery boogeyman nonsense, chastising Tesla for doing something nice, and perpetuating fear-based myths helps nobody.
I am sorry but your analogy is completely wrong. Charing at a public charger (supercharger or otherwise) is an equivalent of filling up gas at a gas station. Most people fill up their tank when they to go gas station so that they can avoid another trip. It should be the same for Charging your car. No idea how the Engine REV or throttle got in here. There is a difference between filling gas and abusing your engine.
E90alex
Active Member
Yes and no. People need to change their way of thinking from ICE vehicles because it doesn’t really apply to EVs.
Gas tanks don’t degrade and lose their capacity the more full you fill them. Gas pumps also don’t slow down significantly from 80-100% full. It can take more time to charge 80-100% than it takes 20-80%. People sitting waiting for 100% charge are actually wasting more minutes of their life because they are gaining less range for the same amount of time.
Eric33432
Member
I tell people that like to argue about these facts that EVs are not probably not for them. But I also tell them that driving an EV is for me really a pleasure and charging at home for daily driving, up to whatever is needed for daily driving, whether it is 50% or 90% is fine, and if you are doing 2 to 4 road trips a year the time charging at SuC for road tripping is less time than getting gas, oil changes, etc., for daily driving.
I respect your viewpoint, but I don’t see it like that. Filling up with gas is an ICE thing we don’t “fill up” EV’s. I used to fill my diesel car once a week or more, I never put less than 100% in it. I charge my electric car almost every single day at my home or workplace so I see no need to charge or be able to charge to 100% daily.
I am happy to do whatever makes my battery last longest. If out of the blue I need to make a long unexpected trip and I’ve only 30% SOC I’ll go as far as I can and jump on a fast charger and get where I need to go. That tiny bit of hassle more than justifies the €300 a month I’m saving on fuel.
It does obviously depend on how you use your vehicle. I do about 600 miles a week but rarely go more than 200 in a day.
Some people do very little daily driving but then want to go 1000miles with one stop. Maybe an EV isn’t for them.
I’ve a Motorhome I don’t ever see a day I’ll have an EV Motorhome, it would be a waste of a c150kwh battery when I only drive about 3000 miles a year in it.
So I feel I need to hijack this tread as I'm doing my pre trip dilemma of charging to 100% or not knowing it will be sitting for about 7 hours at 100% ...
The battery has a few Kwh hours of capacity as a buffer right? so realistically charging to 100% should be fine?
I've got a phev that's nearly 10, now I haven't been driving it much due to well the tesla is so cheap to run we use that, however I did a 350 mile trip a few weeks ago and it brought the max stated charge back to an indicated 31 miles (same as when it was new) now I've been doing lots of short trips and basically just driving on the battery range for a while, very seldom the engine kicks in, in doing so the range dropped to 24 miles on a full charge, that big trip was constantly charging a bit and dropping down to as close to 0% as it lets itself before charging it back up, this seems to cause it to do some sort of calibration in my mind and restores it. Now that phev has 8kwh useable out of 11kwh capacity battery, in my mind this extra capacity does 2 things, it prevents damage to the cells at 100% state of charge and it prevents the battery going to a true 0% as there is always a bit kept charged. I'm not sure if this is true or not but in my head makes sense, would this be the same kind of logic for an EV?
So charging to 100% and leaving it for a while, will that kind of help the BMS determine its capacity a bit better? in my mind running it down to close to 0% then doing a 100% charge is going to let the car guess its capacity better? Or am I just thinking its nonsense ?
Every time I try to find a decent answer all I get is opinions never backup with anything. much like my own antidote above.
The battery has a few Kwh hours of capacity as a buffer right? so realistically charging to 100% should be fine?
I've got a phev that's nearly 10, now I haven't been driving it much due to well the tesla is so cheap to run we use that, however I did a 350 mile trip a few weeks ago and it brought the max stated charge back to an indicated 31 miles (same as when it was new) now I've been doing lots of short trips and basically just driving on the battery range for a while, very seldom the engine kicks in, in doing so the range dropped to 24 miles on a full charge, that big trip was constantly charging a bit and dropping down to as close to 0% as it lets itself before charging it back up, this seems to cause it to do some sort of calibration in my mind and restores it. Now that phev has 8kwh useable out of 11kwh capacity battery, in my mind this extra capacity does 2 things, it prevents damage to the cells at 100% state of charge and it prevents the battery going to a true 0% as there is always a bit kept charged. I'm not sure if this is true or not but in my head makes sense, would this be the same kind of logic for an EV?
So charging to 100% and leaving it for a while, will that kind of help the BMS determine its capacity a bit better? in my mind running it down to close to 0% then doing a 100% charge is going to let the car guess its capacity better? Or am I just thinking its nonsense ?
Every time I try to find a decent answer all I get is opinions never backup with anything. much like my own antidote above.
The biggest point I was trying to make (but it got lost in variety) is that if you are an apartment dweller (think NYC) and do not have a way to charge the car at home, your only choice is public chargers. You may just want to go there, charge your car to full so that you don't have to keep going back to charging your car. Just like what people do when they put gas in their car so that they don't have to go back again and again. And I am not even talking about the duration of your stay at the charger (which makes it even worse but lets ignore that for now). Can someone who lives in an apartment and owns an EV but with no provision for home charging comment here saying I am all wrong? Because I have 2 friends who love my Tesla and want to buy it but cannot due to this very issue.
Ah, I assumed the buffer was above and below! yes I've settled on 95% and will do the rest in the morning, will less than an hour between getting up and leaving though.
Yup I think that's what I'll do!
Ah apologies, I missed that bit, be interesting to see the health on hire cars, when I rented a Tesla before it was on 100% when I picked it up and they advised me to charge it to 100%, this was in Iceland I think the average temp was around -10c at the time, it did spend a lot of time preheating the batteries though. I would assume most people renting an EV will just charge it to 100% and they will be constantly used and run down.
You could charge to 90% slightly more often. Say you use 10%/day. You could do a 90% charge every 9 days or a 100% charge every 10. Since that extra 10% takes so much longer, you'd probably wind up spending less total time charging if you did 90% every 9 days vs 100% every 10.
It's not a popular opinion around here, but, personally, I probably wouldn't consider any EV if I didn't have home charging.
Similar threads
- Locked
