Nvbob
Roadster 1256
Anyone running Toyo Proxes 4 pluses? Our present rears are about to the wear bars and the pluses are being recommended. They do come with a 50k tread warranty.
Anyone?
Anyone?
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strider
Active Member
Looks like they are brand new - didn't even know about them until you posted. As I posted above I like the regular Proxes 4 so I would say go for it and let us know!
mshobe
Member
I got quoted $167.89 for the rear fitment on the new Proxes 4+ by my local Les Schwab. When comparing this to $354 for the AD07s on Tire Rack, it's difficult for me _not_ to strongly consider taking that plunge. I'm a daily driver, 4-season commuter, and track days are mostly a fiction for me. I have a feeling these will handle my situation well without compromising traction control or a whole ton of range efficiency –*but I'm willing to be disabused of that notion.
Also, I suppose I'd dial up alignment settings that modestly favor understeer - if I'm giving up grip, I'd rather scrub the nose than break the tail loose.
Also, I suppose I'd dial up alignment settings that modestly favor understeer - if I'm giving up grip, I'd rather scrub the nose than break the tail loose.
strider
Active Member
I have a base Roadster and w/ the stock suspension and alignment settings the car will still understeer w/ Proxes 4's all the way around (Installed Sport front size). Handling dynamics don't feel like they've changed, there's just less grip in general.
frequencydip
Sig 100 - #52
I would not reccomend putting Toyo Proxies plus on a roadster, the tire has a UTQG of 560 A A compared to the AD07 of 180 AA A. This is significantly less traction. The car already under steers, can easily over steer when maximum power is applied and is known to have braking issues when the brakes are cold. Is saving a few hundred dollars worth risking totaling the car?
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I sometime forget there are allot of Roadster owners who are not sports car enthusiasts, that being said if you do not drive the roadster hard and drive it diligently lower traction tires are probably fine. Just remember to take it easy and be safe.
Updated:
I sometime forget there are allot of Roadster owners who are not sports car enthusiasts, that being said if you do not drive the roadster hard and drive it diligently lower traction tires are probably fine. Just remember to take it easy and be safe.
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Nvbob
Roadster 1256
We put the Proxes 4 plus tires on last week and so far we have about 400 miles with no issues. No TC problems. Steering under acceleration doesn't feel any different (we typically do not do maximum power accelerations). Braking doesn't seem to be any different. The tires are no noisier than other tires we have tried. We travel about 60 miles daily to work over some fairly curvy roads from about 5000 feet to about 8000 feet in elevation (highway 207 up to Tahoe).
So, no issues yet but thanks for the heads up on the traction!
So, no issues yet but thanks for the heads up on the traction!
strider
Active Member
Well, be advised that the treadwear numbers are assigned by the manufacturer and therefore comparing ratings of different manufacturers isn't exact. Manufacturers are regulated such that they may not overstate the treadwear number but they may understate it. Therefore, Yokohama's AD07 could really be a 300 but because people think lower numbers are "stickier" then Yoko puts 180 on the tire. Also, that number is a "treadwear" number and NOT a "traction" number. I have not found the Proxes 4 to have only 32% of the traction of the AD07's. The letters correspond to wet traction and the Proxes are less at an "A" vs a "AA" for the Yoko's.
I have never been able to power oversteer the car with the TC on with the AD07's or Toyo's.
The braking issue has exactly NOTHING to do w/ the tires. Pads are glazing, contaminated, whatever you want to call it such that they aren't grabbing the calipers. When I've noticed the braking issue I can stand on the pedal and not get ABS to engage. If the problem was lack of grip from the tires then ABS would be engaging because the tires were sliding. That is not the case w/ what we've seen here.
Bottom line is that at speeds that you should be driving on public roads the Proxes 4's work just fine. I have 10k miles on mine and I have no regrets. If you want to go all "High School Harry" on public roads then you'll want stickier tires. You're also an idiot. If you track your car you will definitely want something stickier.
frequencydip
Sig 100 - #52
Tires is one of the major factors in the Roadsters braking issue. The Roadster has the tires designed for the Elise yet outweighs the elise by 800Lb. This adds to the Roadsters lack of sufficient traction under extreme braking due to weight and balance. I can fully lock the tires when braking at 60Mph to 0 and come to a screeching halt with cold brakes on smooth pavement. The Proxies with the lower "A" Traction Grade will cover more distance to come to a complete stop in an hard braking situation. Sometimes 4 feet is all the difference between making contact with another object...
strider
Active Member
Then you're not experiencing the braking "issue" that we've been talking about and trying to solve w/ the Carbotech pads. In that scenario, the brake pads are not grabbing, biting, whatever enough to stop the car in a reasonable time/distance. This has nothing to do w/ the tires. While no Schumacher, I can tell the difference between braking distance being caused by lack of tire grip vs lack of brake pad grip. All of the close calls I've had have not been because of tires, period.
I can fully lock the tires when braking at 60Mph to 0 and come to a screeching halt with cold brakes on smooth pavement in my Jeep Liberty too. Based on your logic I should go out and put DOT race rubber on it. In fact, you clearly aren't familiar w/ the concept of a compromise so why are you even running AD07/08's? If 4 feet could make all the difference you should be running A048's then.
Likewise, a LOT of cars weigh more than a Roadster yet few wear even A rated tires. So then based on your reasoning 98% of all cars would just smash into one another every day because they wouldn't be able to stop. That's just not happening. Finally, I'm saving $800/set for tires that will easily last twice as long as the AD07's and maybe 3 times. So we're talking thousands of dollars in savings, not hundreds.
Bottom line is that Proxes 4's have more grip than nearly all tires on road-going cars today so if you use your Roadster to drive on public roads you will be fine. Also, some folks don't live in Sunny Southern California. Nvbob lives in Reno/Tahoe. It gets COLD there. AD07/08's are a summer tire, not designed for cold, snow, etc. If you want to spend more for grippier tires be my guest, but don't fear-monger others that they're going to careen off the side of a mountain or slide under a semi because they chose an "ultra high-performance" tire instead of an "extreme performance" tire.
jordanthompson
2018 P100D Model X
I just got off the phone with Bart at Tire Rack. He told me the Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec is stickier than the AD07 and is only $150. The treads look (nearly) identical to the AD07. Anyone have any experience with these?
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I have them on my S2000. Good autocross/track tire, good for street too. Highly recommended. Caveat: have not tried them on Roadster.
frequencydip
Sig 100 - #52
@ Strider
I think we are talking about two different tires. You appear to be talking about your experience with the "Toyo Proxies 4", Nvbob asked about "Toyo Proxies 4 Plus" these tires have very different characteristics. If we used the minimum rating from the traction grade the Toyo Proxies 4 score 0.54 g force on asphalt while the Toyo Proxies 4 Plus scores 0.47 g's. The Toyo Proxies 4 is on par with the AD07 and the Toyo Proxies 4 Plus is not in the same category. There are plenty of tires others have identified as good replacements for the AD07 that are all season tires. The price of the Proxies 4 and Proxies 4 plus are the same so your not going to save money only give up traction.
I think we are talking about two different tires. You appear to be talking about your experience with the "Toyo Proxies 4", Nvbob asked about "Toyo Proxies 4 Plus" these tires have very different characteristics. If we used the minimum rating from the traction grade the Toyo Proxies 4 score 0.54 g force on asphalt while the Toyo Proxies 4 Plus scores 0.47 g's. The Toyo Proxies 4 is on par with the AD07 and the Toyo Proxies 4 Plus is not in the same category. There are plenty of tires others have identified as good replacements for the AD07 that are all season tires. The price of the Proxies 4 and Proxies 4 plus are the same so your not going to save money only give up traction.
Good find. You can't help but wonder if somebody didn't copy the tread pattern...
It's a little heavier than the AD07. I don't know if that would make a noticeable performance difference.
I see they make a 205/50 R16 for that tire. I wonder if it would fit on the front of the Roadster.
strider
Active Member
@frequencydip: Thanks for the explanation. I had assumed the tires would be similar or that the "Plus" tires would be better in every way (I mean come on, they're "Plus"!). I'm interested to hear Nvbob's reports as time goes on.
I'm coming up on replacing the rear tires again soon (have AD07s). Having been following this thread so am thinking about AD08s for the rears since people seem to be happy with the AD07s front/AD08s rear combo. Looks like the price difference between the two for the rear tires is down to $50 for each tire.
TireRack.com shows the difference at $60 (correction $154).
My AD08's appear to be wearing rather better than the AD07's did.
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That's interesting. I can see why it might be different between Canada and Texas but why is the difference only $42 per tire when I go to Tire Rack?
AD08: $199.
Direzza S Z S S: $157.
Michelin PSS: $179.
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Doug what kind of treadwear did you get on your S2000 compared to other tires? I know, not the Roadster but might give us some idea...
Nvbob
Roadster 1256
Here's a quick update on the Proxes 4 Plus'. We now have about 4-500 miles on the tires and our first impression is that the traction is about the same as all our previous tires. They do "feel" different - at our normal speed, the front steering feels "lighter" (easier to turn). We still have the original AD07's on the front. I am not sure of the correct terminology to use to describe our experiences so far. I have also noticed that they are a little noisier that the AD07's and our previous tires (generic Les Schwab tires).
I think you misunderstood. I meant that AD08 is about $60 (correction $154) cheaper than AD07 at TireRack.
I don't think my results would be considered typical. Since I bought the S2000 in April, I have put about 3300 km (2000 mi) on it. I started with brand-new Star Specs and Hawk HP+ brake pads. As of this weekend the front brake pads are done, the front tires have about 50% wear, and the rears about 20%.
It's not as bad as it sounds. The S2000 is my track car. The tires are actually holding up amazingly well considering what I've been doing to them. :biggrin:
Edit: a little off-topic and just for fun, here's what I've been doing to them...
It occurs to me that part of the reason that my AD08s are lasting better is that I now have A048's for the occasions when I take the Roadster to the track, e.g.:
I got the S2000 in part because the nearby track isn't willing to install chargers, despite my offering to cover all costs.
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You must be paying very different prices in Canada. The difference that I see is $155 per tire.
AD08: $199.
AD07: $354.
That's very useful. Thanks! The Star Specs were thought to be very loud in a lot of reviews.
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