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2012 Tesla Model S P85 - the dreaded HV battery problem

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Resetting a BMS alert without correcting the underlying issue is like taking the battery out of a smoke alarm while it's going off to alert you to a fire. I promise the fire is not put itself out just because you silenced the alarm.

I wouldn't even remotely consider avoiding BMS safety alerts on these cars. You're quite literally playing with fire by doing so. Don't do it.

Edit/Update:

Waiting for a response from 057tech, it's been over a week. Sent another follow up yesterday.
Must be getting caught as spam or something. As far as I know we're only a couple days out on being caught up on ticket responses, but I haven't waded through the filtered notes in a little bit.

Since bms_u029 says 'maximum battery charging levels *reduced*' I presume Tesla forces this limit upon using their firmware. Is there a way to override this 'restriction' (of course by a 3rd party) so the car can charge to the same level that it used to before this error appeared (and after an OTA update)?
While there are people and places that claim they will do this, even if there is a way to do it DO NOT DO IT. See above.

I hope the people/companies doing these "fixes" have really good insurance...

For now, I've been charging the car for my daily commute as I'm able to charge up to 90 miles (75 to 90 is super slow at 8a speed) and pretend I'm driving a Nissan Leaf with limited range.
It will eventually stop working as the underlying issue goes unresolved, so just keep that in mind.
 
Re/Cell promptly sent their quote with three different battery pack options (as they published in their website).

Waiting for a response from 057tech, it's been over a week. Sent another follow up yesterday.

Since bms_u029 says 'maximum battery charging levels *reduced*' I presume Tesla forces this limit upon using their firmware. Is there a way to override this 'restriction' (of course by a 3rd party) so the car can charge to the same level that it used to before this error appeared (and after an OTA update)?

For now, I've been charging the car for my daily commute as I'm able to charge up to 90 miles (75 to 90 is super slow at 8a speed) and pretend I'm driving a Nissan Leaf with limited range.
See Gruber's response to my question on resetting alert at the 21 min mark. NEW Dodge Demon 0-60 In 1.66 Seconds, Cybertruck AI FAKE Images, Hyundai's Big News - GMS #68
 
See Gruber's response to my question on resetting alert at the 21 min mark.

I almost choked on my water when he said "B-S-M" verbally. I've heard some stories from customers, but damn. Yes, let's get advice on how to go about dealing with an issue with a highly complex 5-figure value component on a vehicle from a guy who clearly doesn't even know what a battery management system is. (This isn't the only clear instance I've seen of a solid lack of knowledge.)

ANYWAY.

Specifically with the two most common errors facing older vehicles: most of these are triggered when the car knows that it can not trust the readings from the cell sense boards for one reason or another, meaning the BMS can no longer tell for sure that cells are within valid safe limits. Its temporary solution to this is to narrow the window of usable voltages to be within what it expects to still result in safe voltages, despite a growing error rate. Hence the "maximum charge level reduced" message that accompanies them. This lets you operate the vehicle sufficiently to get it somewhere to get it taken care of instead of leaving you dead in the water. Firmwares prior to about 2019.16.x would instead just leave you stranded. Current firmware at least gives you a way to use the vehicle for a bit.

This is TEMPORARY however. Eventually the amount of error involved will grow until the maximum charge level allowed is 0.

If you just find someone to reset/clear this, you've now just told the BMS, "All the readings are good, no worries! Trust them!" Then, you're going to charge your car, and the BMS is going to work with the readings that it had previously determined to be invalid as if they were real. In reality, you're now likely over-charging or over-discharging the battery pack, and because you effectively told the BMS it was wrong about the readings being inaccurate, it has no idea about this yet because it takes a non-zero amount of time and use for it to gather the data required.

Over-discharging, not usually a huge problem. You're just damaging the pack more.

Over-charging? Well, I hope you have good insurance because eventually your car and whatever it's parked next to will be a smoldering pile of rubble if the BMS doesn't re-catch the issue before the pack ends up overcharged.

Fortunately the BMS is absolutely excellent, and it will usually pretty quickly start catching on and immediately start adjusting usable range accordingly, at least in the background (which is one of the reasons why you find people who have had non-fixes like this done on their vehicles getting stranded with double digit miles of range showing on the dash). Eventually you'll be back in the same boat, since the issue hasn't been fixed.

And if you're an a*****e and are just doing this to sell the car and scam someone else into dealing with the problem, then honestly, **** you. I absolutely can't stand that people like this exist and are actively doing this. I've now had to tell at least 10 people over the past several months that they were scammed by sellers of vehicles like this, where the logs clearly show what was done too. Only one scammer so far had the foresight to wipe the logs entirely on the gateway, but the BMS keeps some records of its own. I've offered to help these people at zero cost with any lawsuits they bring against the scammers, one of which is a dealership who even admitted to previously having the error cleared. Several have taken me up on that. I actually have a deposition scheduled for next week, actually, for one of them.

So don't mess around.

And anyone who ends up in this boat (bought a 2012-2015 S, soon saw a BMS error like this), let me know if you want to see if you were scammed so you can act accordingly. I don't have infinite resources, but I hate scammers and will do what I can.
TL;DR - Don't clear BMS errors without fixing the issue first (which would normally clear it for you anyway).
 
100kWh pack out of a salvage Tesla mobile service vehicle would be your best bet. Honestly, just link up with LayZ for programming and find a shop that will let you use their lift and be done with the battery.
You will be so happy after you did.

BTW, that’s a 2015 MS with a 100 pack from Tesla....

23039
$15000​
Donut Auto Dismantling USA-CA(Rancho-Cordova) Request_Quote 916 346-4073
This is from car-parts.com so call them and ref 23039 part number. Get a Home Depot rental truck so they can fork lift it in and drive the battery to a shop to install it in your Tesla. California has to be loaded with places that will do this. Then rent a dump trailer from Home Depot and bring the old battery to your garage and scrap the modules on Facebook market place to recuperate your costs. Get some old tires to catch the battery off the dump trailer. Then you can take it apart on your own time.
This sounds too adventurous to me, and I'm not sure if I can handle it by myself.
Have u asked Donut if they can also swap the pack for u? they already pulling packs out to sell, maybe they will for extra fee

I'm curious tho if this pack is locked to 85 since it still show P85D on dash?
Does anyone know if battery lock happens on BMS or the car itself?
 
Have u asked Donut if they can also swap the pack for u? they already pulling packs out to sell, maybe they will for extra fee

I'm curious tho if this pack is locked to 85 since it still show P85D on dash?
Does anyone know if battery lock happens on BMS or the car itself?
Donut does offer (thru an affiliated partner) to take out old pack and install replacement. Not sure what the fee is. In this scenario, Donut keeps the old pack.
 
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Reactions: brainhouston
Donut does offer (thru an affiliated partner) to take out old pack and install replacement. Not sure what the fee is. In this scenario, Donut keeps the old pack.
Thats great, so sounds like not a big adventure then
Although, if they keep old pack they should compensate for that...

FYI, here's another success story with pack from Donut:
 
Thats great, so sounds like not a big adventure then
Although, if they keep old pack they should compensate for that...

FYI, here's another success story with pack from Donut:
Yes, @JeffreyHowell opted a DIY uninstall/install. As such, Mr. Howell was able to keep his old pack and recapture some cost by reselling modules.
 
Yes, @JeffreyHowell opted a DIY uninstall/install. As such, Mr. Howell was able to keep his old pack and recapture some cost by reselling modules.
Yeap, n out of 16 modules, plenty of them should be good n sell upwards of $600/ea on ebay...
This is why i personally wouldn't give up my old pack
Also after removing/installing my pack once, its not that hard of the task IF u have access to lift :)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: NV Ray
Yes, @JeffreyHowell opted a DIY uninstall/install. As such, Mr. Howell was able to keep his old pack and recapture some cost by reselling modules.
There was a lot of support from the members here on TMC. If I had to do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing. I used the Tesla manual to the tee for removal and replacement of the pack! Then with all the support here and Facebook I was able to have a success story! Thank you all!
 
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Yes, reset of the alert is an option some folks have gone with. EvFixMe

I opted for new pack from Tesla. I do not recommend the reset option unless the reason for the alert has been addressed.

@Recell and @wk057 do not recommend. Remember, the alert is there for a reason.
Thank you. I completely understand that the alert is there for a reason. Appreciate the response.
 
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Reactions: aerodyne
I almost choked on my water when he said "B-S-M" verbally. I've heard some stories from customers, but damn. Yes, let's get advice on how to go about dealing with an issue with a highly complex 5-figure value component on a vehicle from a guy who clearly doesn't even know what a battery management system is. (This isn't the only clear instance I've seen of a solid lack of knowledge.)

ANYWAY.

Specifically with the two most common errors facing older vehicles: most of these are triggered when the car knows that it can not trust the readings from the cell sense boards for one reason or another, meaning the BMS can no longer tell for sure that cells are within valid safe limits. Its temporary solution to this is to narrow the window of usable voltages to be within what it expects to still result in safe voltages, despite a growing error rate. Hence the "maximum charge level reduced" message that accompanies them. This lets you operate the vehicle sufficiently to get it somewhere to get it taken care of instead of leaving you dead in the water. Firmwares prior to about 2019.16.x would instead just leave you stranded. Current firmware at least gives you a way to use the vehicle for a bit.

This is TEMPORARY however. Eventually the amount of error involved will grow until the maximum charge level allowed is 0.

If you just find someone to reset/clear this, you've now just told the BMS, "All the readings are good, no worries! Trust them!" Then, you're going to charge your car, and the BMS is going to work with the readings that it had previously determined to be invalid as if they were real. In reality, you're now likely over-charging or over-discharging the battery pack, and because you effectively told the BMS it was wrong about the readings being inaccurate, it has no idea about this yet because it takes a non-zero amount of time and use for it to gather the data required.

Over-discharging, not usually a huge problem. You're just damaging the pack more.

Over-charging? Well, I hope you have good insurance because eventually your car and whatever it's parked next to will be a smoldering pile of rubble if the BMS doesn't re-catch the issue before the pack ends up overcharged.

Fortunately the BMS is absolutely excellent, and it will usually pretty quickly start catching on and immediately start adjusting usable range accordingly, at least in the background (which is one of the reasons why you find people who have had non-fixes like this done on their vehicles getting stranded with double digit miles of range showing on the dash). Eventually you'll be back in the same boat, since the issue hasn't been fixed.

And if you're an a*****e and are just doing this to sell the car and scam someone else into dealing with the problem, then honestly, **** you. I absolutely can't stand that people like this exist and are actively doing this. I've now had to tell at least 10 people over the past several months that they were scammed by sellers of vehicles like this, where the logs clearly show what was done too. Only one scammer so far had the foresight to wipe the logs entirely on the gateway, but the BMS keeps some records of its own. I've offered to help these people at zero cost with any lawsuits they bring against the scammers, one of which is a dealership who even admitted to previously having the error cleared. Several have taken me up on that. I actually have a deposition scheduled for next week, actually, for one of them.

So don't mess around.

And anyone who ends up in this boat (bought a 2012-2015 S, soon saw a BMS error like this), let me know if you want to see if you were scammed so you can act accordingly. I don't have infinite resources, but I hate scammers and will do what I can.
TL;DR - Don't clear BMS errors without fixing the issue first (which would normally clear it for you anyway).
Thank you for the detailed response. Much appreciate it. As you said, I'm dealing with a major repair of a five figure component which isn't easy money wise, especially after spending ten grand just 11 months ago. I understand and realize that replacing the HV battery (reman or brand new) is the ONLY option that I have or I sell it as-is for a huge loss. I won't sell it for sure at a huge loss. I would rather bite the bullet, spend the money to replace it so I can at least drive the next 50k miles (warranty) for 4 years. Thank you once again.
 
@wk057 My ticket number is #057_6082636.

I asked Tesla about the details of reman pack such as whether or not it's a 350v or 400v, when was it made, what would be its estimated range / capacity, etc. All they said is that the reman battery is a 85kwh like my current one and 'would perform the same way' my current battery performs. After reading your detailed explanation on the 2012-2015 models, I'm so worried what if they put an old reman pack and if it fails right after the warranty period of 4 years ends. I don't drive much as you can see and have only 69k on the odo. I don't want to be spending another $15k 4 years later. I understand SC has no control on the inventory of reman pack, but can't they be a bit more specific as to what I am getting - at least the age and the condition of the reman battery?

Thanks.
 
@wk057 My ticket number is #057_6082636.

I asked Tesla about the details of reman pack such as whether or not it's a 350v or 400v, when was it made, what would be its estimated range / capacity, etc. All they said is that the reman battery is a 85kwh like my current one and 'would perform the same way' my current battery performs. After reading your detailed explanation on the 2012-2015 models, I'm so worried what if they put an old reman pack and if it fails right after the warranty period of 4 years ends. I don't drive much as you can see and have only 69k on the odo. I don't want to be spending another $15k 4 years later. I understand SC has no control on the inventory of reman pack, but can't they be a bit more specific as to what I am getting - at least the age and the condition of the reman battery?

Thanks.
I had the same concern as you. That's why I opted for a new pack from Tesla. Still only a 4 year warranty on a new pack :(
 
I had the same concern as you. That's why I opted for a new pack from Tesla. Still only a 4 year warranty on a new pack :(
$5k-$6k difference between reman and new pack. Of course new pack would charge better and probably perform faster. But I fail to understand why Tesla can't offer a better warranty for a new battery pack, which is supposed to last a million miles.
 
$5k-$6k difference between reman and new pack. Of course new pack would charge better and probably perform faster. But I fail to understand why Tesla can't offer a better warranty for a new battery pack, which is supposed to last a million miles.
You're right. I feel new replacement pack from Tesla should be same as if you bought a new Tesla - 8 years.

I was lucky - ordered reman 85 from Tesla for $15k (including tax and labor). New 90 came in. Tesla honored my reman quote so saved that $5k-$6k difference.
 
Tesla has never said that their packs are supposed to last a million miles. At most I think Elon has said that the Model 3 packs should last 300-500k miles.
I should've been more specific. Here is SC's response when I asked about the warranty and why battery packs fail at 60k miles (or even at lower miles in some cars - as low as 30k miles). with that 999,999 miles / 8 years warranty coverage, I assumed they would last a million miles.
 

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with that 999,999 miles / 8 years warranty coverage
The warranty was not for 999,999 miles, it was unlimited miles for 8 years.

I assumed they would last a million miles.
That was a poor assumption on your part, as warranties don't mean something will last that long, it means that it will be repaired/replaced so that it works for at least that long... For example, Hyundai replaces a lot of engines under their 10 year/100k mile warranty.
 
The warranty was not for 999,999 miles, it was unlimited miles for 8 years.


That was a poor assumption on your part, as warranties don't mean something will last that long, it means that it will be repaired/replaced so that it works for at least that long... For example, Hyundai replaces a lot of engines under their 10 year/100k mile warranty.
I just shared the screen shot of the message received from SC and quoted it. Anyways, million or 500,000 or even 250,000. Mine lasted just for 60k miles. That's where I am. I will never be able to drive million miles in 10 years, at beast 125k miles, that's all I would be driving given my commute. Thank you.