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2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

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So you're thinking that manipulators (of whatever sort) are taking money from people who set stops?
Or that the dark pools represent an institution unloading? (Or both?) (There are some institutions -- mostly the crooked megabanks -- which I've been *expecting* to unload TSLA, because they're notorious short-termers.)

I figured out as a kid that stop-loss orders were basically invitations for the brokers to take money out of your pocket, but it seems that people still use them. I suppose this is because so many people are traders rather than investors.

Both.
The long downtrend yesterday was likely primarily a large position sold. Start of day to end, shows a difference of ~200k shares.
I identify trading like spikes as cases where the accumulator spikes up or down, then retraces most or all of its move not long after. Yesterday morning, there looks to be a case where someone dumped a large amount of shares, causing the price to cascade down, then they covered a bit after the bottom without impacting price too much. Very profitable.

Today has a better example of what I tend to identify as trading, in this case apparently by a pretty big fish - the "U" shape this morning coorelated with dark pool selling of roughly 20k shares, followed by buying of about 25k shares less than an hour later. I see this as shorting 20k shares, (possibly 20k more after that first spike down), then covering, possibly after deciding it wasn't going lower fast enough.

tsla-buysell-darkpool.png
 
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Both. The long downtrend yesterday was likely primarily a large position sold. Start of day to end, shows a difference of ~200k shares. The trading-like spikes barely register, but I identify them as cases where the accumulator spikes up or down, then retraces most or all of its move not long after.
Today has a better example of what I tend to identify as trading, in this case apparently by a pretty big fish - the "U" shape this morning coorelated with dark pool selling of roughly 20k shares, followed by buying of about 25k shares less than an hour later. I see this as shorting 20k shares, (possibly 20k more after that first spike down), then covering, possibly after deciding it wasn't going lower fast enough.

View attachment 239165
This was both helpful and informative. Thanks for sharing.
 
Kelty at Linked In now only lists himself as a former volunteer soccer coach. It will be interesting to learn where he is going, and even more so to learn who's his replacement.

Link is here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurt-kelty-5604bb/

He's been there 11 years 6 months so probably a good time to leave - as an indispensable employee, he probably had blackout dates to sell his stock so now his handcuffs are off (as are the Rive brothers).
 
Both.
The long downtrend yesterday was likely primarily a large position sold. Start of day to end, shows a difference of ~200k shares.
I identify trading like spikes as cases where the accumulator spikes up or down, then retraces most or all of its move not long after. Yesterday morning, there looks to be a case where someone dumped a large amount of shares, causing the price to cascade down, then they covered a bit after the bottom without impacting price too much. Very profitable.

Today has a better example of what I tend to identify as trading, in this case apparently by a pretty big fish - the "U" shape this morning coorelated with dark pool selling of roughly 20k shares, followed by buying of about 25k shares less than an hour later. I see this as shorting 20k shares, (possibly 20k more after that first spike down), then covering, possibly after deciding it wasn't going lower fast enough.

View attachment 239165

There is so much we all can learn from you. Please post more of this in the future.
 
[OT] Is Breitbart really a reliable source?
Feel free to google the topic yourself, that's all I did, but plenty of places I've read online where the Japanese are fiercely loyal towards Japanese brands, not to mention regulatory hurdles that must be jumped... I'm sure I must have seen one or two, but during the 2 weeks I spent in Tokyo walking the streets on vacation, I don't recall seeing a single U.S. vehicle.
 
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Feel free to google the topic yourself, that's all I did, but plenty of places I've read online where the Japanese are fiercely loyal towards Japanese brands, not to mention regulatory hurdles that must be jumped... I'm sure I must have seen one or two, but during the 2 weeks I spent in Tokyo walking the streets on vacation, I don't recall seeing a single U.S. vehicle.
Anecdotal I guess but, South Korean residents/visitors on this forum mentioned that luxury/premium brand German cars are all over the place in South Korean cities.
 
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Feel free to google the topic yourself, that's all I did, but plenty of places I've read online where the Japanese are fiercely loyal towards Japanese brands, not to mention regulatory hurdles that must be jumped... I'm sure I must have seen one or two, but during the 2 weeks I spent in Tokyo walking the streets on vacation, I don't recall seeing a single U.S. vehicle.

Hence the superchargers in Japan are there to charge up...the Toyota fuel cell vehicles?
 
On a different manipulation note, saw some obvious capping just prior to close:

320-capping-8.1.17.png


Red line is $320. As soon as it was about to touch $320, a dark pool selling spike of about 10k shares occurred:

tsla-buysell-darkpool-capping.png

(colored bars indicate NBBO was crossed, widening b/a spread. red = more selling, green = more buying)

I don't have <1m resolution and didn't check times/sales, but caught it out of the corner of my eye - it appeared to be a single or just a few, large trades.
Algos programmed to buy will rationally step back a bit when encountering a sell spike like that on an uptrend, since it implies encountering increased supply - why pay more than you have to? Effective technique.


Interestingly, immediately as AAPL spiked in after hours, 41 lots ask (41x100) showed up on $319.49. Good way to stifle any large TSLA jump in AH.
 
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Tesla Model 3 is equipped with a driver-facing camera for Autopilot and Tesla Network

This is my opinion, not a fact: Tesla Network is coming sooner than some here expect.

Other automakers, like GM with the Supercruise on the Cadillac CT6, have started implementing similar solutions.

Several autonomous driving experts believe that a driver-facing camera to monitor driver engagement is needed for level 3 autonomous driving – a level of autonomous driving where the driver is basically used as a backup to the autonomous system with a reasonable period of time to transfer the controls.

It could be either for the network or for level 2-3 or both.
 
There is so much we all can learn from you. Please post more of this in the future.

Heh, believe me, I know nothing. Most of what I've posted is from months of watching these charts and seeing how patterns play out, and speculating what is occurring. Sometimes the accumulators send clear obvious signals, most of the time just noise. The latter can really trip you up by seeing what's not really there.

That said, pretty sure someone knew last week that AAPL would beat. Big market pressure spike (rising/strengthening bid) last week - they've been probably just passively absorbing selling the last few days... No position here though.
 
Tesla has been increasing S & X deliveries, in part, by expanding into geographically more remote and thinner markets such as Mexico, South Korea, UAE, Ireland, Portugal, Jordan, etc., all of which require build-out and operation of new sales/service centers and supercharger locations, many of which involve shorter-term operating leases until the market is validated.

Other, more established markets such as Denmark, Hong Kong, and the UK where the EV subsidies are contracting still have operating expenses for the embedded infrastructure that do not decline anywhere near as sharply as new sales apparently have.

Then, there is the promised tripling of Supercharger pedestals before year end 2018. "There are currently 6,124 Superchargers around the world. By the end of 2018 there should be over 18,000 worldwide. Eventually you’ll be able to go anywhere on Earth using the Superchargers," Elon said on Friday night. To the extent site leasehold improvements for expansion are on shorter-term operating lease locations, those costs will also be expensed rather than capitalized. Tesla allocates SC operating costs between COGS and SG&A. The more that is allocated to SG&A, the higher the reported GM%, but it all washes out at the Net Income (Loss) level.

The greatest driver of SG&A will obviously be the growth in total deliveries (and servicing)--say from ~76,000 in 2016 to ~350,000 +/- during 2018. It's not just the increase in volume but also the amount of "hand-holding" of new, down-market customers that will be required. Through 6/30/17, Tesla had delivered ~230,000 Ss & Xs world-wide. I'd guesstimate that about 80% were to multiple car households and about 20% were to customers who had previously owned Teslas. Most of the customers in that demographic could readily write a check for their purchase and/or the difference between the Tesla they were returning and their new one. A far greater percentage of M3 customers will be single vehicle households, have un-paid loans/leases on non-Tesla vehicles, and are not nearly as financially astute nor well off as S and X purchasers. IMO, Tesla will have to expend a lot of SG&A to accommodate the new customer demographic to avoid complaints from disgruntled ones who are always more vocal than the more tolerant types.

As far as R&D growth goes, IMO Tesla cannot stay on schedule with plans for a new MY (on a entirely new platform in an entirely new factory), the Class 8 tractor, the pick-up, the solar shingles etc. without significant growth in R&D during 2018.

YMMV.

I agree with you that R&D and SG&A will continue to rise. The question is will they, combined, rise as much as gross profits?

If we assume 400,000 Model 3's will be sold at $47,000 ASP in 2018 at 20% gross margin, that's nearly $4 billion of additional gross profit.

I estimate that the planned charging network buildout will cost the company less than $1 billion based on an estimate of per location (not per Supercharger) cost using the figures in 10-Q as well as the vastly increasing number of Superchargers per location (some have 50+ Superchargers).

The increase in R&D is primarily hiring of additional engineers among other things. I can't imagine Tesla tripling its number of engineers in the next 12 to 18 months (can you?), but that's the assumption I included in my DCF to be conservative.

Also keep in mind that Tesla is cutting down SolarCity related SG&A and R&D costs so we should see some partial offsets in 2H17.

Thoughts?
 
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adding a log on this fire...
I use a similar method (with macro influences) for trading Core shares into DITM LEAPS (and vise versa).
Based on my model, I did this in recent dip at SP $308, $315, and $325 - Currently would do more at $310 -
It would require $360-$390 to gradually convert them back to Common (dependent on macro events as yet undefined)

I use a model that has led me to a similar strategy.

Considering that some here have written puts below $300, there seems to be significant support at $290-310.
 
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Chart wise TSLA setting up nicely for a post ER gap up especially given that pessimism is running high about this ER and last several ERs, probably last 5 ERs or so SP has declined immediately post ER
So I dare say this time may be different and what no one is expecting, the unthinkable, may happen in that an unexpected gap up and price surge post earnings highly likely
 
Chart wise TSLA setting up nicely for a post ER gap up especially given that pessimism is running high about this ER and last several ERs, probably last 5 ERs or so SP has declined immediately post ER
So I dare say this time may be different and what no one is expecting, the unthinkable, may happen in that an unexpected gap up and price surge post earnings highly likely

While I love your attitude, don't forget about last Q3. Gap up, relentless pummeling down... (My hunch is naive Toyota was unloading their shares then, and higher price in a downtrend = sell moar! faster!)
 
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