Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Based on historical data, do Adam Jonas notes move the SP or not?
IIRC they actually do move the SP and they move it in the direction intended by the corresponding note.
Note to self:
Always use notes by Adam Jonas and Goldman to trade around.
They really tend to move the markets or anticipate market movements so that it pays off more often than not to consider their advice (at least short term).
They know when to release a note e.g. at key technical levels to increase their effect on the SP.
 
I've been doing a lot of research/reading/educating myself over the last 48 hours on possible scenarios specifically on the Trump issue.

Keep in mind that anything can happen. There's an increased level of macro/political risk which may coincide with Model 3 issues etc.

Having said that, even though Tesla's valuation metrics may come down over the next 12-24 months, I do not currently think a substantial decline in stock price (i.e. below $250) is highly likely. My reasoning is:

1. Tesla will grow very substantially in the next 18 months from $10 billion run-rate revenues currently to more than $30+ billion in 2018. There has never been a company that grew more quickly after the $10 billion revenue mark. Especially at times of turbulence, investors may see Tesla as one of the few options with an improving future and buy the dips throughout a recession (see Apple in 4Q08/1Q09).

2. I expect oil prices to rise throughout 2H17/1H18, which can act as a positive catalyst for Tesla as it would increase demand for all-electric vehicles. As consumer product/service companies, Apple/Facebook/Google/Amazon would have been hurt by a surge in oil prices, which tend to show up at late-expansion stage of economic cycles. I believe this is a very important distinction that is not discussed often enough by Tesla analysts and investors.

3. Tesla runs its balance sheet conservatively: the company uses equity secondaries as opposed to issuing debt, VIE debt is non-recourse and backed by solar assets, recourse debt is mostly low-rate convertible and zero-coupon meaning most of the interest expense is non-cash amortization, its upcoming product has a long waiting list, and so on.

4. The Fed is data-dependent, and it may push out what is already a gradual pace of interest rate raises.

5. Domestic political turmoil is usually coupled with significant depreciation in that country's currency, which would be positive for Tesla as the vast majority of its costs are denominated in USD, and half (and increasing) of its revenues is denominated in other currencies (mainly EUR and CNY).

6. Nothing may come of the current political turmoil.

In summary, the upside in the company is signifiant, and the downside seems limited if the Model 3 ramp-up moves along smoothly. I agree that some turbulence seems to be ahead, so keeping leverage conservative may be wise. Staying power is paramount.
 
Last edited:
Well said papafox!

I see and hear too many loose tongues conjuring up dire situations with absolutely no proof. This would stop with Mueller at the helm.

If you think a sitting president being disgraced and impeached isn't a dire situation then your statement might be partially valid.
However it was Trumps loose tongue wagging on televised interviews saying he fired his FBI director to prevent the Russian investigation from continuing which proves he's obstructed justice. It was his loose tongue giving Russian spy masters secret intelligence. On and on, another brick in the wall every day. As fast as things are unraveling for him this week, how completely will a professional like Mueller unravel it? You must be hunkered down getting all "information" from Fox News to imagine what's happening is some media hysteria.
 
If you think a sitting president being disgraced and impeached isn't a dire situation then your statement might be partially valid.
However it was Trumps loose tongue wagging on televised interviews saying he fired his FBI director to prevent the Russian investigation from continuing which proves he's obstructed justice. It was his loose tongue giving Russian spy masters secret intelligence. On and on, another brick in the wall every day. As fast as things are unraveling for him this week, how completely will a professional like Mueller unravel it? You must be hunkered down getting all "information" from Fox News to imagine what's happening is some media hysteria.
As much as I hate seeing politics discussed in this thread, this situation worries me in regard to the market. We've managed to blow through all the other insane stupid things he has done, but this is heading toward crisis. People do stupid things in crises even when it doesn't affect the underlying fundamentals.
 
If you think a sitting president being disgraced and impeached isn't a dire situation then your statement might be partially valid.
However it was Trumps loose tongue wagging on televised interviews saying he fired his FBI director to prevent the Russian investigation from continuing which proves he's obstructed justice. It was his loose tongue giving Russian spy masters secret intelligence. On and on, another brick in the wall every day. As fast as things are unraveling for him this week, how completely will a professional like Mueller unravel it? You must be hunkered down getting all "information" from Fox News to imagine what's happening is some media hysteria.
Regardless of one's political views there are only two potentially relevant cases in modern US history. Those are Nixon and Clinton. Nixon lied and protested while dismissing open investigation. Clinton compartmentalized his administration and managed through it. Nixon resigned, Clinton powered through it. We already have the Watergate era chart to look at in this thread. Given President Trump's Tweets of this AM we have reconfirmation that he's going "Full Nixon" but without good administration to go with it. Thus, I'd look at the Watergate-era chart, add some volatility and use that as the best surrogate. We should remember that the Trump volatility and lack of discipline will inevitably accelerate this process. Thus, I plan to ignore this volatility and concentrate on evaluating what a Pence administration will mean when it happens. I will use the betting markets (Ladbroke and BetFair) as my forecasting tools:
Ladbrokes

These may not be perfectly predictive of actual outcomes but they closely track market sentiment, thus short term volatility. I'm sure ones of our chartists already has correlation to other recent political events. There really aren't reliable Watergate-era betting market data that I have found. There are BREXIT data, recent UK, US and French election data. It seems to me these data are possibly better analogues to pure political market drivers than are market data directly because the betting odds measure the political variable directly and purely. From a statistical perspective modeling can be described (anyway it was so described in a thesis I wrote) as a 'passionate search for causality'. When causality cannot be accurately and precisely determined, heuristics begin to be relevant.

Right now we really need to sort out these influences as precisely as we can so we can better predict probable market reactions to the forthcoming drama. Example: Mr. Trump made two defiant Tweets this AM. Those, based on past events, might well further depress market recovery today. Will they? I suspect so, but at the moment I'll not bet that they will, especially because TSLA is having good news on Model 3 and Energy.

Sorry for fence-sitting, but sometime soon TSLA positives will overwhelm the political worries. I'm not smart enough to know when. The Ladbroke odds suggest to me that the market might have decided Trump will go, in which case, as I mentioned above, we need to assess the future President Pence. My view: Pence will be predictable. Predicable is positive for markets. Thus, regardless of specific policies there will be a "Pence bounce" that will last a while. Second: This is an elderly rising market, so overall there is probably not much upside. TSLA will, IMHO, handily beat the markets while gradually reducing volatility as global BEV and renewable policies become clearer.

Finally, If Green Mountain Power approach to weaker moderation works, we can anticipate gigantic growth for Tesla Energy and competitors worldwide. It will work; ergo Tesla Energy will accrue quite large valuation within the next few years beginning around the time that the Vermont installations go online.
 
Great posts by @ValueAnalyst and @jbcarioca, thanks for those.

I'm also modeling Pence as best I can, but also trying to model a long, drawn-out yet partially neutered Trump administration. Very difficult to predict effects on market and TSLA specifically. I expect TSLA will bounce and be among the more resilient stocks in the market during this period unless there are difficulties launching the Model 3.

Also, Roger Ailes is dead. Unclear what effect this has on markets, if any.

Also, Chris Cornell is dead, and I literally dreamed his theme song from Casino Royale last night - spooky.
 
We are literally weeks away from
Tesla's biggest event ever, tesla m3 reveal. Tesla has affirmed they are on track to deliver vehicles this year. Why would anyone get in front of that train and short??

Remember how much the stock went up around the day of the reveal. Imagine what's going to happen when they actually have the product sitting in showrooms around the world.
 
Great posts by @ValueAnalyst and @jbcarioca, thanks for those.

I'm also modeling Pence as best I can, but also trying to model a long, drawn-out yet partially neutered Trump administration. Very difficult to predict effects on market and TSLA specifically. I expect TSLA will bounce and be among the more resilient stocks in the market during this period unless there are difficulties launching the Model 3.

Also, Roger Ailes is dead. Unclear what effect this has on markets, if any.

Also, Chris Cornell is dead, and I literally dreamed his theme song from Casino Royale last night - spooky.

Noooo! Not Cornell! So bummed. What an amazing voice and lyricist. Hope he finds Kurt, Scott, and Layne and they have a few laughs together.
 
We are literally weeks away from
Tesla's biggest event ever, tesla m3 reveal. Tesla has affirmed they are on track to deliver vehicles this year. Why would anyone get in front of that train and short??

Remember how much the stock went up around the day of the reveal. Imagine what's going to happen when they actually have the product sitting in showrooms around the world.

Actually, we are weeks away from a private viewing and Q&A, which may end up being highly censored. It' hard to tell if it will have any meaning, or just be fluff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.