Don't know if you folks have been following the threads on Electrek, but the trolls and shills have really come out of the woodwork the last couple of days. Their arguments are really poor. Total desperation from the Kochs/Big Oil/GM/Sméagol, etc.
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According to the online configurator screenshots recently reported on Electrek, an additional $2500 deposit is required when you configure place your order. After that, the entire $3500 is not refundable.
GSP
DragonWatch
Small FootPrint
One point of the ICE car demise few are talking about is the flood of used cars about to swamp the market place. It was an instrumental point in my selling off my two ICE cars to purchase our MX. Every month i checked Kelly Blue Books website I found the value of our five year old cars declining. FYI ~ we were M3 reservationists
. And, add that to the ICE car manufacturers slowdown.
The Electrek article about M3 configurations reminded me of this seldom discussed fact.
. And, add that to the ICE car manufacturers slowdown.The Electrek article about M3 configurations reminded me of this seldom discussed fact.
Press feedback has been really really positive, so my gut says we gap up.
Also, I've been giving more thought to the base Model 3 range. Why is it 220? (I was hoping for something closer to 240) Conclusion... the Model 3 range will never exceed the equivalent trim range on the S. The base Model S range is 249miles. As the range increased on the S, the range will increase on the 3. This will always be a differentiator between S and 3.
larmor
Active Member
Despite or inspite of fud type articles, IMO, the market reacts to sales and volume. Pulling ahead orders of M3 which have a higher ASP is a very good sign for the market. The market cannot ignore the 373K (400k?) pre orders, and some of them want more than just the base...
WhiskeySauer
Member
Tesla Model 3 Delivered July 28, 2017. TSLA market cap is $55B. Are you ready, shorts? Because we're coming for you!
Reciprocity
Active Member
It might be, though I see what you are asking. Thinking something like an BMW X4. The only reason I think it might be smaller is that with the ability to potentially make 6M a year of one car to sell to the masses, the Y would be the best chance Tesla had with the new simplified platform. Normally I would have guessed it would be just like S->X where the X is bigger. But if Tesla really is going to be building millions in a single year it almost had to be targeting the smaller crossover market. Could also see them come out with model 3 variants including hatchback, coup and convertible... Not any time soon but after model Y is in full production. As the platform matures there could also be a refresh with a metal roof/sun roof and a hatchback.
Reciprocity
Active Member
Reciprocity
Active Member
Up 20 in pre market, then NASDAQ tanks and Tesla follows down 40 then back up in power hour to close up $1. Typical tsla day lately.
Reciprocity
Active Member
And 220 is more then what most people need. This is enough range for most to go anywhere they need with the supercharger network. You also have to consider this car will charge almost 30% faster in terms of miles per hour when compared to S/X. This is due to how dramatically more efficient at highway speeds the model 3 will be. An X75D only has just over 230 so 220 is good enough.
Why is the model 3 going to be more efficient at highway speeds than the S/X? Is it the Cd? Weight? Combination of factors?
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
Combination. Lower cd, lower cross sectional area and lower rolling resistance due to lower weight.
Edit: Also it's quite clear at this point that the two M3 models are 75kWh and 50kWh. See here: Model 3 Energy Consumption Rate, Battery Size, and SC Charge Rates
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People have mentioned the Supercharger network as Tesla's big advantage over the competition, but with the Model 3 getting 130 miles in 30 minutes is better than the Bolt's 90 miles in 30 minutes, but quite a bit worse than the S and X. You're now looking at 45 minutes stops at superchargers. My 4.5 year old "A" pack P85 charges substantially faster than that.
And then the other big advantage was supposed to be the gigafactory driving down costs. Yet, the Model 3 large battery upgrade per kwh isn't much cheaper than the upgrade cost 5 years ago to go 60->85 on the Model S. So if there's any cost reduction, it's not being seen by the consumer.
The big bear arguments are batteries are expensive and slow to charge. My naive eye sees charging times getting worse and almost no reduction in battery costs to the consumer. That'd seem to directly feed the bear arguments.
And then the other big advantage was supposed to be the gigafactory driving down costs. Yet, the Model 3 large battery upgrade per kwh isn't much cheaper than the upgrade cost 5 years ago to go 60->85 on the Model S. So if there's any cost reduction, it's not being seen by the consumer.
The big bear arguments are batteries are expensive and slow to charge. My naive eye sees charging times getting worse and almost no reduction in battery costs to the consumer. That'd seem to directly feed the bear arguments.
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Reciprocity
Active Member
Yes all you mentioned. 237Wh/mi vs 323Wh/mi rated for my X. Almost 30% more efficient so it will charge almost 30% faster, at least 20% on a miles of range charged per hour. Also for home charging and costs less to charge for the same reason. On a per mile basis. You of course pay the same amount per KWh.
Actually, it will not charge faster on a supercharger. Tesla quoted only 130 miles range gained in 30 minutes for the base model three.
Reciprocity
Active Member
I was comparing smallest battery to smallest battery. In particular the model x75D which I own. If the battery is a 55kwh battery it should charge faster then the 75kwh battery in terms of miles per hour. If that is 130 in a half hour, then that is probably more then the X75D, which from experience it is. 130 miles in an hour maybe in real world conditions. I Never see above 80kwh during charging and only for a few minutes. Also when you share a super charger and are locked at like 50Kwh, then the 3 will charge nearly 30% faster. And at home.. same thing. Maybe under the most idealistic situation the X75D will charge faster for 30 minutes, but from 10% to 90% on a crowded super charger. I'll bet my paycheck on the model 3. It's basically a 30% smaller battery that is nearly 30% more efficient. The c rate will be lower, but that's offset by the size leaving the efficiency in the favor of the model 3. There larger battery should be more comparable to the S75 in terms of c rate but still 20% more efficient on the consumption side.
Reciprocity
Active Member
$9000 is cheap for 90 miles of range. Compare that to $10,000 for 45 miles from 90D to 100D. Shouldn't be comparing charge rates of an 85kwh pack to a 55kwh pack. It's just not fair. The smaller battery model 3 should compare favorably to the smaller model S battery in terms of miles per hour charged in real world situations.
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