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Perhaps both hands, but at highway speeds I only use one, and I use AS all the time on highways. At speed it doesn't take much steering angle to avoid an obstacle, and for me, holding the wheel around 8 or 4 o'clock position depending on which hand, coupled with lightly gripping the wheel while occasionally gripping slightly firmer to satisfy the nag timer works well.
I think the point of both hands is in case AP does something stupid. While driving yourself on a highway, it is very unlikely that your car will suddenly swerve into oncoming traffic, unless you drive into a pothole or big snowbank. With AP, it's possible, hence the precaution of "both hands on the wheel".
 
Just a thought here: Since it's difficult to understand what a person means by saying they have to "tug" on the wheel, as it's too subjective, what do people actually mean by "tug?"

Does a tug mean moving the wheel enough that the car actually moves left or right in the lane?

Does anyone have video of their having to "tug" on the wheel which shows how far the wheel has to rotate to cancel the nag?

Might be a good time for a survey thread with attached videos showing both sides of the issue. Perhaps understanding both sides and seeing different approaches can be a teaching moment? It could even point out differences in H/W that can be addressed by a service visit.
 
Agreed. The truth is that none of us know the failure rate of AP in ideal conditions on a divided highway. No single person can experience enough autopilot miles to know how safe it really is. Safety can only be demonstrated by looking at millions of miles of driving data comparing hands free operation vs hand on wheel vs manual driving. Until safety is proven I’m going to keep my hands on the wheel and be attentive. The combination of attentive driver and AP is where the big safety win comes from as the technology stands today.
The problem is that even with best intentions, as the system gets better, it takes increasingly more and more mental effort to keep alert. Google/Waymo and some independent studies confirmed it. Personally, I know better to pay attention, but a a few occasions in the past I found myself not paying as much attention as I should. On one occasion, after being stuck in stop and go traffic for almost an hour, once the traffic got going it caught me by surprise, I found myself staring out the side window and then had a sudden realization "wait, I think I'm supposed to be driving!" - that was before most of the nags. That, and catching the car a couple of times trying to drive into a broken down car on the side of a highway is when I decided to turn it off - I knew using it is just an accident waiting to happen, my biggest worry was actually exactly what eventually happened to the poor guy in the X in California. I also tell my wife not to use AP for the same reasons (and she's not a techie either, so she's likely to build up more trust in AP than I would). Maybe if the system was actually able to determine that the driver is not holding their hands on the wheel or paying attention to the road, maybe then I would start using it again, but then again, it loses a lot of its usefulness (to the driver, as it is of course useful to Tesla to have people beta-testing their stuff).
 
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I think the point of both hands is in case AP does something stupid. While driving yourself on a highway, it is very unlikely that your car will suddenly swerve into oncoming traffic, unless you drive into a pothole or big snowbank. With AP, it's possible, hence the precaution of "both hands on the wheel".
I hear you, but since you stated you don't use AS other than for occasional testing it, you may not be aware that many have found that you can feel when AS is starting to go wonky, and simply tightening your grip on the wheel causes a disengagement before any bad things happen. It's almost a symbiotic relationship.

There are however conditions where AS should be turned off as it's not yet at a point where it can be trusted 100% IMHO, however it's gotten very close to 99%.
 
Just a thought here: Since it's difficult to understand what a person means by saying they have to "tug" on the wheel, as it's too subjective, what do people actually mean by "tug?"

Gently applying a small pressure up or down so that AP detects your hands on the wheel. It's not strong enough to disengage autosteer or move the car, but its enough to stop the nagging.
 
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I hear you, but since you stated you don't use AS other than for occasional testing it, you may not be aware that many have found that you can feel when AS is starting to go wonky, and simply tightening your grip on the wheel causes a disengagement before any bad things happen. It's almost a symbiotic relationship.

There are however conditions where AS should be turned off as it's not yet at a point where it can be trusted 100% IMHO, however it's gotten very close to 99%.
You can feel it if you're paying attention, and that is what the nagging is meant to ensure. There are probably better ways but Tesla didn't equip the cars with the appropriate sensors to monitor attention another way.
 
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Are you for real?
I think so. I guess we could all be simulations according to Elon, but I'm pretty sure he's off his rocker on that one.

My point is, they're trained in deescalating situations based on many things, in this case, what is said and more importantly, how things are said. Reading some of the posts read as if folks are getting more aggravated over time, over something that may not even be in a released version. Makes no sense.
 
"Someone who has it."

A single source, as I indicated, does not a substantiated fact make. I never suggested the source be outed...
You initially said "unsubstantiated rumor". Clearly you didn't actually mean that.

If what you had meant to say was "an anecdote from an alpha tester doesn't mean every alpha tester is experiencing the same way, and we shouldn't mistake singular anecdotes for universal validity", then I guess I apologize?

Hopefully your hostage negotiator is more careful with words! :eek:;)
 
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The problem is that even with best intentions, as the system gets better, it takes increasingly more and more mental effort to keep alert. Google/Waymo and some independent studies confirmed it. Personally, I know better to pay attention, but a a few occasions in the past I found myself not paying as much attention as I should. On one occasion, after being stuck in stop and go traffic for almost an hour, once the traffic got going it caught me by surprise, I found myself staring out the side window and then had a sudden realization "wait, I think I'm supposed to be driving!" - that was before most of the nags. That, and catching the car a couple of times trying to drive into a broken down car on the side of a highway is when I decided to turn it off - I knew using it is just an accident waiting to happen, my biggest worry was actually exactly what eventually happened to the poor guy in the X in California. I also tell my wife not to use AP for the same reasons (and she's not a techie either, so she's likely to build up more trust in AP than I would). Maybe if the system was actually able to determine that the driver is not holding their hands on the wheel or paying attention to the road, maybe then I would start using it again, but then again, it loses a lot of its usefulness (to the driver, as it is of course useful to Tesla to have people beta-testing their stuff).

You’re right. If I’d driven 30,000 incident free miles on AP I can imagine complacency creeping in. The system could still be significantly less safe than a human driver at that point. This will be a bigger problem for people that are first exposed to AP when it’s more mature and the error rate is lower.

Maybe Tesla are about to increase the max torque on the steering wheel to navigate tighter curves at higher speed and this is why they need to increase the nags? This is probably wishful thinking..
 
You initially said "unsubstantiated rumor". Clearly you didn't actually mean that.

If what you had meant to say was "an anecdote from an alpha tester doesn't mean every alpha tester is experiencing the same way, and we shouldn't mistake singular anecdotes for universal validity", then I guess I apologize?

Hopefully your hostage negotiator is more careful with words! :eek:;)

Yeah, yeah, yeah! :)

The post I replied to said "scuttlebutt" without mentioning it was from an alpha tester, nor was it stated it was from anything more than from a single source. So no, to me that's is an unsubstantiated rumor. So there. ;)

Oh, the hostage negotiator was fatally shot, so only his teachings remain. :cool:
 
At the shareholder meeting just a few minutes ago, Elon said that Tesla will offer a free trial of autopilot. He also said a new autopilot update will be rolling out this week and he says it is significantly better.
Did he say anything about coast to coast FSD demo that was originally supposed to happen by end of last year, or is that just another topic he finds too boring to talk about? It would tell you how fast AP is moving in real time vs. Elon time.
 
Did he say anything about coast to coast FSD demo that was originally supposed to happen by end of last year, or is that just another topic he finds too boring to talk about? It would tell you how fast AP is moving in real time vs. Elon time.
No, but he just said enhancements to the app will allow the car to come find you wherever you are. Sigh.
 
No, but he just said enhancements to the app will allow the car to come find you wherever you are. Sigh.
You mean what he said back in 2016 - "When you want your car to return, tap Summon on your phone. It will eventually find you even if you are on the other side of the country" ?!?!?!!!
(I cannot seem to attach the tweet from Elon, but it's available in this post)

I'm getting my checkbook ready....
 
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Did he say anything about coast to coast FSD demo that was originally supposed to happen by end of last year, or is that just another topic he finds too boring to talk about? It would tell you how fast AP is moving in real time vs. Elon time.

No, he has not been asked a question about it yet. But he did say that Tesla is currently testing two different approaches to the on-off ramp feature of enhanced autopilot and that he is using the simpler approach in his car now and it works and he thinks it could be rolled out in the next couple of months. So that should give us a little clue about autopilot progress.
 
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