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2021 EV Tax Credit

DLK1974VA

Member
May 31, 2021
11
55
USA
What is the current assessment of the likelihood of Tesla vehicles again qualifying for the the $7,500 US federal government tax credit or possibly $10,000 if including made in America provision? What purchase/pickup date would one have to have to qualify for the credit? I've seen various thoughts on whether that would be retroactive to late May, the date the legislation passes, or not until January 1, 2022. Assuming it could go into effect in July/August (passing this summer) why would anyone be purchasing a car now unless literally have nothing else to drive, his or her tax liability won't require the credit, certain it will take months to get the car with the increased demand the credit will drive, and/or Tesla will generally raise the price to offset much/all of the credit? I am currently in the 8 - 12 week window (placed M3 order at end of May) and want the car now but can't imagine my frustration if I had waited a couple of weeks/month and would have had a massive tax benefit.
 
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Given the current rate of inflation, thanks to all the ridiculous, mostly poorly thought out stimulus bills, pretty soon almost all EVs will be over the 40k threshold. I haven't seen this rate of inflation since the 70's. It was a miserable time.

It will only get worse as they continue to print money. Then watch the interest rates go way up once the gov't stops buying $100 billion in bonds each month. Then you'll see the real impact that is currently hidden and watch home loans and all others skyrocket. Since your pay will unlikely even keep up with half of the inflation rate, most of us will take a big hit in real income. Of course the law doesn't account for inflation and like most stupid governmental laws, it will be out of date in about a year or two. Look at the dependent care reimbursement plan that really never increased the amounts over its entire lifetime.

So anyone who wants to buy a Tesla and is planning to take advantage of any tax credits/incentives, that is pretty much a pipe dream unless you fit a VERY narrow use case. Inflation alone will likely drive the current cheapest Tesla above the 40k limit faster than this bill will ever become law.
 
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h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,108
685
auburn, ca
Given the current rate of inflation, thanks to all the ridiculous, mostly poorly thought out stimulus bills, pretty soon almost all EVs will be over the 40k threshold. I haven't seen this rate of inflation since the 70's. It was a miserable time.

It will only get worse as they continue to print money. Then watch the interest rates go way up once the gov't stops buying $100 billion in bonds each month. Then you'll see the real impact that is currently hidden and watch home loans and all others skyrocket. Since your pay will unlikely even keep up with half of the inflation rate, most of us will take a big hit in real income. Of course the law doesn't account for inflation and like most stupid governmental laws, it will be out of date in about a year or two. Look at the dependent care reimbursement plan that really never increased the amounts over its entire lifetime.

So anyone who wants to buy a Tesla and is planning to take advantage of any tax credits/incentives, that is pretty much a pipe dream unless you fit a VERY narrow use case. Inflation alone will likely drive the current cheapest Tesla above the 40k limit faster than this bill will ever become law.
And which party do we get to thank for this? Gas is just about 5 bucks a gallon for me. My first home had a 13% first, and 17% second. Folks have no idea how inflation kills things, just wait.
 
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linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,190
4,193
mtn view, ca
half of the US government is for green power things and the other actively fights it at every step.

which is which: is an exercise left for the reader. but its a damned shame that we have to fight with ourselves over something that has long and short term benfits to everyone. and electric can be made as cheap as gas cars; not every electric needs level 2, etc. they just need reasonable battery and enough speed/accel to push them over the deciding line (lol, so to speak).

china is putting huge amounts of money into companies and roads and winning hearts/minds of its citizens. there is nothing in the current china govt that is pushing oil/gas and trying to demonize electric. the US wins (wins, sigh) on that account, but we could easily change if we wanted to.
 
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h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,108
685
auburn, ca
half of the US government is for green power things and the other actively fights it at every step.

which is which: is an exercise left for the reader. but its a damned shame that we have to fight with ourselves over something that has long and short term benfits to everyone. and electric can be made as cheap as gas cars; not every electric needs level 2, etc. they just need reasonable battery and enough speed/accel to push them over the deciding line (lol, so to speak).

china is putting huge amounts of money into companies and roads and winning hearts/minds of its citizens. there is nothing in the current china govt that is pushing oil/gas and trying to demonize electric. the US wins (wins, sigh) on that account, but we could easily change if we wanted to.
So, what do you think the NEM3 outcome will be? Supporting your vision? And who runs California? And what half are they?
 
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techlogik

Closed
Mar 22, 2021
380
279
FL
And which party do we get to thank for this? Gas is just about 5 bucks a gallon for me. My first home had a 13% first, and 17% second. Folks have no idea how inflation kills things, just wait.
Gas is $5 a gallon in California, thank your local State and politicians for that. It's under $3 in Florida.

Which is fine for my wife/kids...me, don't care, I don't use gas anymore :)
 
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MontyFloyd

Member
Aug 9, 2021
364
226
Houston
thanks to all the ridiculous, mostly poorly thought out stimulus bills,
I agree that is a contributing factor.
Add supply disruptions, conflicts, disasters (those fires all over the world are doing more damage than just burning wood).

Put it another way:
Global trade requires a reliable supply and stable governments. Well, say good bye to that.
The US has offshored (literally off shored to other side of Pacific) so much manufacturing the US is in a world of hurt.

Elon made the right decision years ago to keep part supplies close, not impacting Tesla as much as say Ford.
 
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Spidey616

Member
May 31, 2021
200
236
Morgantown WV
Page 294, ‘‘(k) TERMINATION.—No credit shall be allowed under this section with respect to any vehicle acquired after December 31, 2031.’’ Is it reasonable to expect that this won't be effective until after December 31, 2021? That's 10 years even. Or is it at the passing of this bill?
I believe this would be effective, assuming it passes, Jan 1, 2022. That was the read on r/electrcivehicles as well.
 
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Spidey616

Member
May 31, 2021
200
236
Morgantown WV
Some clarity in chart form via Twitter:
04A89FF9-CFFE-44AB-BB2E-C00D76C8A112.jpeg
 
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VTShaggy

Member
Feb 19, 2020
143
96
Virginia
Thanks for sharing. Guess there will need to be quite a large parking lot to store all the Model 3 SR+, Model 3 LR, and Model Y's that will have their delivery delayed until the new year.

I wonder how optional paint colors, wheels, and FSD factor in to the maximum MSRP provision.

"No credit shall be allowed under subsection (a) for a vehicle with a manufacturer’s suggested retail price in excess of the applicable limitation."
 
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Fueleconomy.gov lists it as a "Small Sport Utility Vehicle" where the Mach E is a "Small Station Wagons"
According to 40 CFR 600.002 "Sport utility vehicle (SUV) means a light truck with an extended roof line to increase cargo or passenger capacity, cargo compartment open to the passenger compartment, and one or more rear seats readily removed or folded to facilitate cargo carrying."

Which in turn begs the question of what is a "light truck": "Light truck means an automobile that is not a passenger automobile, as defined by the Secretary of Transportation at 49 CFR 523.5. This term is interchangeable with “non-passenger automobile.” The term “light truck” includes medium-duty passenger vehicles which are manufactured during 2011 and later model years."

This then sends us down a rabbit hole, a "medium duty passenger vehicle" is "a vehicle which would satisfy the criteria for light trucks as defined by the Secretary of Transportation at 49 CFR 523.5 but for its gross vehicle weight rating or its curb weight, which is rated at more than 8,500 lbs GVWR or has a vehicle curb weight of more than 6,000 pounds or has a basic vehicle frontal area in excess of 45 square feet, and which is designed primarily to transport passengers...

For a variety of reasons the Model Y doesn't appear to meet the definition of "light truck" or "non-passenger vehicle", and does appear to conform to the definition of "automobile". Neither "small sport utility vehicle" nor "Small station wagon" makes any appearance in the code, from what I can see.

We'll need to see the final bill language, but under the existing definitions we may well be SOL. A communication with one's congress-critter may be in order while there is still time.
 
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VTShaggy

Member
Feb 19, 2020
143
96
Virginia
According to 40 CFR 600.002 "Sport utility vehicle (SUV) means a light truck with an extended roof line to increase cargo or passenger capacity, cargo compartment open to the passenger compartment, and one or more rear seats readily removed or folded to facilitate cargo carrying."

I wonder if 40 CFR § 600.315-08 - Classes of comparable automobiles contains the applicable definitions.

(2) The Administrator will classify light trucks (nonpassenger automobiles) into the following classes: Small pickup trucks, standard pickup trucks, vans, minivans, and SUVs. Starting in the 2013 model year, SUVs will be divided between small sport utility vehicles and standard sport utility vehicles. Pickup trucks and SUVs are separated by car line on the basis of gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR).
(v) Small sport utility vehicles. Sport utility vehicles with a GVWR below 6,000 pounds.

 
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