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2021 M3P new owner. Need advice on tires spec

butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
Hi guys,

I'll be getting my 2021 M3 Performance on 3/14 (exciting). It'd be a total new experience coming from a former BMW 435i coupe/occasional race car driver.

Tesla here only gives us 19' stock wheels and tires on the M3P models (huge bummer...) so I am thinking about getting aftermarket wheels and tires but would need some advice here.

Questions:

1) Is it okay to have different width of tires in the front and back on the AWD car? (stock tires here are 235/45/R19 on all 4 wheels)

2) If it's okay to have a wider rear tires, what front/rear tire spec would you guys recommend for improved grip/cornering/handling performance with minimal range impact?

3) If I'm going to get aftermarket rims for Tesla M3P, recommendations on the specs for 19 wheelers ? I don't plan to get the 20s as they probably don't offer any real advantages on the performance other than just the looks but would decrease the range.

Thanks everyone here for helping out a first time Tesla owner. Cheers :)
 

Feathermerchan

Active Member
Sep 21, 2018
1,134
881
Euless, Tx
First off, I have a Model 3 Perf and I sold my 20" wheels and tires ASAP and bought Titan 18" forged wheels and 18" tires. MUCH lighter and lots less chance of damaging wheels.

1)Yes its OK but you will pay a price. You will no longer be able to rotate tires front to back and so many tire Mfrs will not allow full mileage warranty. So if this is important check first.

2) I don't think you'll gain anything by having a staggered tire setup.

3) I am very happy with my Titan wheels (18lb vs 32lb each for 20"). Depending on what tires you'll have, changing from UHP summer tires to almost anything else will get you more range.
 

Mash

Supporting Member
Nov 10, 2019
892
676
Prague
Hi guys,

I'll be getting my 2021 M3 Performance on 3/14 (exciting). It'd be a total new experience coming from a former BMW 435i coupe/occasional race car driver.

Tesla here only gives us 19' stock wheels and tires on the M3P models (huge bummer...) so I am thinking about getting aftermarket wheels and tires but would need some advice here.

Questions:

1) Is it okay to have different width of tires in the front and back on the AWD car? (stock tires here are 235/45/R19 on all 4 wheels)

2) If it's okay to have a wider rear tires, what front/rear tire spec would you guys recommend for improved grip/cornering/handling performance with minimal range impact?

3) If I'm going to get aftermarket rims for Tesla M3P, recommendations on the specs for 19 wheelers ? I don't plan to get the 20s as they probably don't offer any real advantages on the performance other than just the looks but would decrease the range.

Thanks everyone here for helping out a first time Tesla owner. Cheers :)
1. You can, but performance will be worse since stock abs, tc, power distributor assumes square setup. Go with 275x35x19 on 19x9.5 et30 wheels if you need better cornering, track heat management and don't want to go 18 inch. Signature wheels made in your hometown, so should be much cheaper to ship.
2. Any staggered setup would worsen performance. Don't do it.
3. See above. 18 inch would work better on track if you go with harder suspension.
 

butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
1. You can, but performance will be worse since stock abs, tc, power distributor assumes square setup. Go with 275x35x19 on 19x9.5 et30 wheels if you need better cornering, track heat management and don't want to go 18 inch. Signature wheels made in your hometown, so should be much cheaper to ship.
2. Any staggered setup would worsen performance. Don't do it.
3. See above. 18 inch would work better on track if you go with harder suspension.

Thanks @Mash for your input. I really enjoyed reading your thread in the racing related sticky thread.

so are you saying 275/35/19 on 19*9.5 et30 can fit all 4 wheels nicely? I'm pretty sure the rear would be okay, just not sure the front can go that wide as well.

Another question would be, should I just daily drive on 275/35/19 and get another set of 18s for track days or just track the 275/35/19 (likely Michlin PS4S or Cup2 or Super Sport Trofeo
 

Mash

Supporting Member
Nov 10, 2019
892
676
Prague
Thanks @Mash for your input. I really enjoyed reading your thread in the racing related sticky thread.

so are you saying 275/35/19 on 19*9.5 et30 can fit all 4 wheels nicely? I'm pretty sure the rear would be okay, just not sure the front can go that wide as well.

Another question would be, should I just daily drive on 275/35/19 and get another set of 18s for track days or just track the 275/35/19 (likely Michlin PS4S or Cup2 or Super Sport Trofeo
Yes, I daily 275x35x19 on 19x9.5 et30. All 4 fit. Front fits up to 300, but above 275 might need more camber and spacers or different ET.

4S at this size takes more time to get greasy vs stock size, but they still get greasy. Cup2 are way better for the track - they can take a beating and have stronger shoulder, but they scare me on a wet road.

Ideally I would just keep stock 19 wheels for the street and if tires are not performance - change to 4S. For the track I would add FUCA and use 18x10.5 with 295 tires like a052. I feel that cup2 is only ok for a sunny weekend car like Porsche.

I had to change wheels to 19 inch, because stock 20 inch doesn't like any potholes or curbs and weights a ton.
 
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butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
First off, I have a Model 3 Perf and I sold my 20" wheels and tires ASAP and bought Titan 18" forged wheels and 18" tires. MUCH lighter and lots less chance of damaging wheels.

1)Yes its OK but you will pay a price. You will no longer be able to rotate tires front to back and so many tire Mfrs will not allow full mileage warranty. So if this is important check first.

2) I don't think you'll gain anything by having a staggered tire setup.

3) I am very happy with my Titan wheels (18lb vs 32lb each for 20"). Depending on what tires you'll have, changing from UHP summer tires to almost anything else will get you more range.

What's the reason for swapping out 20s for 18s instead of 19s? Do you track heavily?

Looks like the consensus is to not go for staggered setup which clears my confusion. Thanks.

I really don't understand why a lot of local Tesla owners go for 245 front and 285 rear where I live and they swear that it drives better lol.
 

Mash

Supporting Member
Nov 10, 2019
892
676
Prague
What's the reason for swapping out 20s for 18s instead of 19s? Do you track heavily?

Looks like the consensus is to not go for staggered setup which clears my confusion. Thanks.

I really don't understand why a lot of local Tesla owners go for 245 front and 285 rear where I live and they swear that it drives better lol.
They think it looks better and they can't distinguish drive quality, so it's a confirmation bias.

18inch is softer ride vs 19. The only downside of 18 - looks.
 

butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
Yes, I daily 275x35x19 on 19x9.5 et30. All 4 fit. Front fits up to 300, but above 275 might need more camber and spacers or different ET.

4S at this size takes more time to get greasy vs stock size, but they still get greasy. Cup2 are way better for the track - they can take a beating and have stronger shoulder, but they scare me on a wet road.

Ideally I would just keep stock 19 wheels for the street and if tires are not performance - change to 4S. For the track I would add FUCA and use 18x10.5 with 295 tires like a052. I feel that cup2 is only ok for a sunny weekend car like Porsche.

I had to change wheels to 19 inch, because stock 20 inch doesn't like any potholes or curbs and weights a ton.

What's your front and rear camber setting for daily? or what would you recommend?

Re: Cup2 on wet, tell me about it, first time I took my 435 to a local track and it was raining, my cup 2 made my rear skidding left and right lol.

AFAIK, Tesla here offers Hankook Ventus S1 EVO3 235/40/R19 as their stock tires for 2021 M3P. I've only driven Cup2, PS4S, S7001 throughout my bmw ownership. I never had Hankook before, not sure how good it is and am not sure if I should install aftermarket rim and wheels soon as I get it or drive around it for couple of months before taking it off. Thoughts?
 

Mash

Supporting Member
Nov 10, 2019
892
676
Prague
What's your front and rear camber setting for daily? or what would you recommend?

Re: Cup2 on wet, tell me about it, first time I took my 435 to a local track and it was raining, my cup 2 made my rear skidding left and right lol.

AFAIK, Tesla here offers Hankook Ventus S1 EVO3 235/40/R19 as their stock tires for 2021 M3P. I've only driven Cup2, PS4S, S7001 throughout my bmw ownership. I never had Hankook before, not sure how good it is and am not sure if I should install aftermarket rim and wheels soon as I get it or drive around it for couple of months before taking it off. Thoughts?
My f/r is 1.5/2.0 for the street and 3.0/2.0 track. But for the track it's just better to ride and check temperatures afterwards. I also sit lower on KW suspension. Model3 has very low CG, so you don't need a lot of camber.

I don't have experience with Ventus - try them first anyway.

Cup2 also needs more heat, so if it's wet - they can't warm up. But I saw pro driver using them on a wet Ring on my car and, I guess, I'm just not a very good driver. But, anyway, I'm not using cup2 on the street. And if track tire is dedicated, cup2 makes not much sense.
 

butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
Yes, I daily 275x35x19 on 19x9.5 et30. All 4 fit. Front fits up to 300, but above 275 might need more camber and spacers or different ET.

4S at this size takes more time to get greasy vs stock size, but they still get greasy. Cup2 are way better for the track - they can take a beating and have stronger shoulder, but they scare me on a wet road.

Ideally I would just keep stock 19 wheels for the street and if tires are not performance - change to 4S. For the track I would add FUCA and use 18x10.5 with 295 tires like a052. I feel that cup2 is only ok for a sunny weekend car like Porsche.

I had to change wheels to 19 inch, because stock 20 inch doesn't like any potholes or curbs and weights a ton.


by the way, could you kindly recommend aftermarket rims that fit your recommendation? I know Tesla has unique bolt pattern that a lot of rims don't fit.
 

butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
My f/r is 1.5/2.0 for the street and 3.0/2.0 track. But for the track it's just better to ride and check temperatures afterwards. I also sit lower on KW suspension. Model3 has very low CG, so you don't need a lot of camber.

I don't have experience with Ventus - try them first anyway.

Cup2 also needs more heat, so if it's wet - they can't warm up. But I saw pro driver using them on a wet Ring on my car and, I guess, I'm just not a very good driver. But, anyway, I'm not using cup2 on the street. And if track tire is dedicated, cup2 makes not much sense.

What do you recommend for track tire dedicated to maybe just 4-5 times of tracking a year?
 

Mash

Supporting Member
Nov 10, 2019
892
676
Prague
by the way, could you kindly recommend aftermarket rims that fit your recommendation? I know Tesla has unique bolt pattern that a lot of rims don't fit.
I only use custom fit wheels or OEM. Signature Wheels use a TW factory. You can try to find who is that.

I liked A052 tires for the track. It's a medium race compound with threading that allows some amount of wet surface. Like any race compound its very grippy first 5-6 heat cycles and then goes down to just a good grip like cup2. Basically you use them just one weekend for top grip.

It's street legal, so can change at home and use in classes where slicks are not allowed.
 

butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
I only use custom fit wheels or OEM. Signature Wheels use a TW factory. You can try to find who is that.

I liked A052 tires for the track. It's a medium race compound with threading that allows some amount of wet surface. Like any race compound its very grippy first 5-6 heat cycles and then goes down to just a good grip like cup2. Basically you use them just one weekend for top grip.

It's street legal, so can change at home and use in classes where slicks are not allowed.

I couldn't find 19/9.5 et30 from their website. Could you kindly link me to your wheels? :)

https://www.signaturewheel.com/fitments
 

Feathermerchan

Active Member
Sep 21, 2018
1,134
881
Euless, Tx
I changed to 18" because it gives the lowest unsprung weight. Immediately noticed better ride. Lower unsprung makes you faster, follows the road better. Look at F1 and other race cars. They don't have rubber bands for tires. Bonus with more sidewall - less chance of wheel and tire damage if you go off road/track/pothole. Looks are subjective.
 
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butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
I changed to 18" because it gives the lowest unsprung weight. Immediately noticed better ride. Lower unsprung makes you faster, follows the road better. Look at F1 and other race cars. They don't have rubber bands for tires. Bonus with more sidewall - less chance of wheel and tire damage if you go off road/track/pothole. Looks are subjective.

Thanks for the explanation! I'll take those into consideration. Or maybe I'll just get a dedicated set of 18s for track day use only and 19s for daily drive.
 

P3D-R

Member
Jan 15, 2020
166
182
Fremont, California
I couldn't find 19/9.5 et30 from their website. Could you kindly link me to your wheels? :)

https://www.signaturewheel.com/fitments

AFAIK, Signature is made by BC Forged. Might be cheaper to just get some BC forged wheels in TW.
Taiwan Bor-Chuann (BC-racing)

I have done many fitments as well but the first question you need to ask yourself is about range. Are you concerned about range at all? If you go wider than 235 or 245 you will definitely have a loss in range. Anywhere between 15-25% I'd say. In my data collection with numerous clients I have found that wider wheels not only adds friction to cut down on efficiency but people get "throttle happy" also which is totally acceptable and welcomed. lol. I can't drive my car slow anymore. It's too much fun. I've run 265/35/19's and 295/30/19's. I've also had a variety of 18" setups I've done but all with 265/40/18s. I most recently did some photography work for Redwood and showcased their 20x10 Model Y wheel on my Model 3 with some Aspira studded Tesla specific spacers. It looks amazing. 20x10 with 275/30/20. I've attached some images below. I threw in my buddy's Model Y for good measure with the same 20x10 wheel and he's squared up on 285/35/20.

I hope this helps you. Feel free to DM if you have specific questions.
P3D SSR Saratoga sobey.jpg
20210109-p3dcountergram1910-4.jpg
20210204-RWS5-Model 3-3.jpg
20210204-RWS5-Model Y.jpg

20210204-RWS5-Model 3 Y group shot.jpg
 

butterscotch

Member
Feb 7, 2021
46
3
Taipei, Taiwan
AFAIK, Signature is made by BC Forged. Might be cheaper to just get some BC forged wheels in TW.
Taiwan Bor-Chuann (BC-racing)

I have done many fitments as well but the first question you need to ask yourself is about range. Are you concerned about range at all? If you go wider than 235 or 245 you will definitely have a loss in range. Anywhere between 15-25% I'd say. In my data collection with numerous clients I have found that wider wheels not only adds friction to cut down on efficiency but people get "throttle happy" also which is totally acceptable and welcomed. lol. I can't drive my car slow anymore. It's too much fun. I've run 265/35/19's and 295/30/19's. I've also had a variety of 18" setups I've done but all with 265/40/18s. I most recently did some photography work for Redwood and showcased their 20x10 Model Y wheel on my Model 3 with some Aspira studded Tesla specific spacers. It looks amazing. 20x10 with 275/30/20. I've attached some images below. I threw in my buddy's Model Y for good measure with the same 20x10 wheel and he's squared up on 285/35/20.

I hope this helps you. Feel free to DM if you have specific questions. View attachment 635463 View attachment 635464 View attachment 635465 View attachment 635466
View attachment 635467

Nice photos! :D and Thanks! I'll give BC a call, looks like they are about 2 hours away from where I live.

Re: range. If it's 15-25% drop in range, I'd be concerned. I'd be okay with <10% range impact. That's why I don't bother looking at the 20s and just want to stick to the 19s for my daily road use. I'm just not sure if a jump to 275 from 235 would be too much (i'm sure it'll look square up and amazing). My current bmw 435 is staggered 235f/265r. Never thought about 275 would work on Tesla lol and don't know how it'll affect the range in terms of %.

Re: throttle happy, I drive relatively fast compared to other road cars so yea...I don't think I'd hold back on the throttle even on stock in the m3p lol
 

P3D-R

Member
Jan 15, 2020
166
182
Fremont, California
Nice photos! :D and Thanks! I'll give BC a call, looks like they are about 2 hours away from where I live.

Re: range. If it's 15-25% drop in range, I'd be concerned. I'd be okay with <10% range impact. That's why I don't bother looking at the 20s and just want to stick to the 19s for my daily road use. I'm just not sure if a jump to 275 from 235 would be too much (i'm sure it'll look square up and amazing). My current bmw 435 is staggered 235f/265r. Never thought about 275 would work on Tesla lol and don't know how it'll affect the range in terms of %.

Re: throttle happy, I drive relatively fast compared to other road cars so yea...I don't think I'd hold back on the throttle even on stock in the m3p lol

Just keep in mind the range loss is more due to tire width than diameter or even weight of the wheel. Your greatest impact is in friction from the tire. So even a 235 OEM size tire but in a very sticky compound will result in range loss. If you want to retain as much range as possible you need to use Tesla spec tire which is limiting.

With that said if you want to stick to a 235 TO spec tire which is wider than most 235's ~ a 245 then you can run a 19x9 wheel in a +25 to +30 offset. There's just so many things that can affect range. Wheel design, distance to fender, tire compound, tire width, diameter of wheel, and so on. It can get really frustrating. The easiest solution is to get solar and charge at home. Then you can SMASH away without regret!!!! That's what I did and I'm so happy for it. I didn't buy this car for range. I bought this car because it's the cheapest, fastest, dad friendly thing I could get to grow my balls back. hahaha. For me range was secondary. As a father of 2 I couldn't justify buying a 991 or a GT3RS so I did the next best thing imo.
 
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