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2021 Model 3 Heater blowing cold air

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There have been a ton of sensor problems with the 2021 Model 3 that result in cold air blowing out of the vents. I believe @Cybr.Myk in this thread had similar issues and had a sensor replacement. It's possible that there are additional performance limitation with the heat pump, but I think all of the issues that people have found so far have turned out to be software bugs or a sensor failure.

I know it's Tesla and their engineering is a bit of a black hole, but I find it hard to believe that total heat output wasn't a top level design requirement for the HVAC system.


I mean, we're talking about a company that is so baffled by the concept of cold weather that they don't offer heated wiper jets on the 3/Y, when anyone who's ever lived where it gets legitimately cold understands the importance of being able to spray fluid on the windshield to clear muck when it's below freezing. That's a feature that was on sub-$20,000 cars over 20 years ago, not exactly rocket science to implement.

(I really, really enjoy pulling over to clean my Model 3's windshield repeatedly when the blades alone can't clear road spray effectively in proper cold. SUPER fun.)
 
I mean, we're talking about a company that is so baffled by the concept of cold weather that they don't offer heated wiper jets on the 3/Y, when anyone who's ever lived where it gets legitimately cold understands the importance of being able to spray fluid on the windshield to clear muck when it's below freezing. That's a feature that was on sub-$20,000 cars over 20 years ago, not exactly rocket science to implement.

(I really, really enjoy pulling over to clean my Model 3's windshield repeatedly when the blades alone can't clear road spray effectively in proper cold. SUPER fun.)
To be fair this is not a Tesla thing, even the most popular EVs don't have it, like the Leaf for example.
Windscreen washers and sub-zero temperatures
Also Ioniq. Ironically in that thread someone showed a Tesla having heated wipers.
An unintended design flaw with EVs... frozen windscreen...
You can find that heated wipers and washer nozzles have been available as an option on the Model S since 2014 at least:
Tesla Model S Subzero Weather Package Review
 
But absent of defective sensors, there are plenty of people claiming the heat pump system is able to keep them toasty warm even in the cold temperatures described. I have yet to see evidence that the system is unable to keep up.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Tesla successful in its engineering endeavours. If nothing else, its success drags the ICE world along for a ride.

But it's becoming painfully obvious that a number of Tesla's enhancements just aren't ready for prime time.

As a relatively early Model S owner I was OK being the guinea pig. Between having 8 total years of warranty - and yes - very impressive service from the rangers the first couple of years, I had no quibbles with the issues that popped up.

That of course doesn't exist anymore. So if the company wants to stand on its engineering laurels, it has to do much better than this.

If nothing else - don't all automakers take their cars to Tucson in August and Finland (or wherever - you get the point) in winter to test HVAC and other systems under temperature extremes ?

My assumption is that Tesla does not.
 
To be fair this is not a Tesla thing, even the most popular EVs don't have it, like the Leaf for example.
Windscreen washers and sub-zero temperatures
Also Ioniq. Ironically in that thread someone showed a Tesla having heated wipers.
An unintended design flaw with EVs... frozen windscreen...
You can find that heated wipers and washer nozzles have been available as an option on the Model S since 2014 at least:
Tesla Model S Subzero Weather Package Review

Sure, and those companies suck for that decision as well. Tesla not offering the option on the Model 3/Y is just appallingly stupid because it means they know it's important but they don't care enough about their customers to offer it on the more popular models.
 
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I think the car can't keep up with the fan speed and heat generation at that setting. Seems like a limitation of the car. Hopefully I won't have broken sensors/parts in the future on top of that.

I think not, please read below why.

Update:
Okay, so my car (M3P MY21, 836xxx) finally had the pressure sensors replaced/changed at the Tesla Service Center, only about two weeks ago. I asked about possible subsequent failures, the service rep told me that at least she hasn't had any car return for another replacement as far as her history goes.

Just as a reminder, these were the exact parts:
Code:
Correction: Sensor - Subcool - Pressure and Temperature - High Pressure (Remove & Replace)
Parts Replaced or Added Part QTY.
PT SENSOR, LOW PRESSURE(1510048-00-B) 1.0
PT SENSOR, HIGH PRESSURE(1510047-00-B) 2.0
Correction: Sensor - Pressure and Temperature - Low Pressure (Heat Pump) (Remove & Replace) Correction: Sensor - Pressure and Temperature - High Pressure (Heat Pump) (Remove & Replace) Pay Type: Basic Vehicle Limited Warrant

Even before the replacement of the sensors, I've had no issue(s) with "TURN ON CLIMATE" and getting the car heated up (when stationary) even beyond -20'C temperatures for an extended period of time. However, after taking the 1.000 kilometer drive south (during which the issues of not getting enough heat could be felt to the bones) and having had these sensors replaced, I hadn't gone on any longer trips with my Tesla. Hence, the issue hadn't been visible since.

However, now as I did another 1.000 kilometer drive north just this week (split to two days of driving, with outside temps ranging from -16'C to -26'C), the issue of not getting proper heat into the car was immediately back. But why, how?

Here's my hypothesis on the subject, as I had a good 18 hours of in the car during two days of driving. (Read: Enough time to test this into oblivion.)
  1. Everything is fine, when you remotely turn on the climate from the mobile app, especially when the car's battery is cold, as it turns on the heat pump AND starts preconditioning the battery
  2. Everything is fine, when you're driving to the nearest supercharger with the SC set as a destination on the navigation (as next stop), IF you're close enough to it (e.g. 40 kilometers away), as the car starts to precondition the battery automagically
  3. Everything is fine, if the car's battery is cold (somewhere below between +15'C...+25'C I will yet test at below what temp exactly), and the heat pump activates (you can hear the 'HURRRR'ing sound clearly, when it does)
  4. Heating doesn't really work when your car's battery is warm: This is exactly the point when cabin heating starts dwindling down, most visible when e.g. leaving a supercharger with the battery at +50'C. At this point, one needs to turn up heat to "HI" and reduce airflow power to ca. level 4 or less (+ turn center air flow OFF), which is quite quick in the cold weather when driving 100km/h. Surprisingly, most heat is delivered to the BACK (turn this on), but you really don't get more than +16'C inside and your hands will freeze on the wheel
  5. When heating doesn't work, your best bet is to come to a full stop, put the car in park-mode, use mobile app to "TURN OFF CLIMATE", wait for 15 seconds or so, "TURN ON CLIMATE" and have climate on "AUTO" hope to hear the heat pump activate. Caveats:
  • The heat pump doesn't want to activate, if your car's battery is warm. In this case your best bet is to do the above ("HI" and 4 or less power, heating to the back on and airflow to windows & floor, not center) to get the inside cabin temperature up to +16'C (Car using less than 1 kWh on idle), do remember to set airflow to the back-- this is the most excruciating time to have to drive in the cold
  • In semi-warm battery conditions (e.g. battery around +25'C), when the heat pump actually does turn on (but is operating at low power), turning from AUTO to MANUAL settings, the heat pump will disengage and turn off! When at this stage on AUTO, you actually can get more heat to the cabin for a pleasant drive. (Car using around 2 kWh on idle)
  • After multiple tries (or battery at around +10'C), when the heat pump does actually get fully engaged in its task, it makes a much louder sound (and turning from AUTO to MANUAL doesn't turn it off anymore), this is when you can get all the heat in the cabin that you want at whatever outside temperatures, worked fine in beyond -20'C. (Car using beyond 4 kWh on idle)
<TL; DR> It seems that there is no problem for the car to generate heat in reality, not a hardware problem either, but perhaps some firmware update in between versions has broken/modified the heat pump interoperation with other heat sources (e.g. octovalve scavenging heat from battery) which are not sufficient in e.g. -15'C or colder conditions.
 
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Update:
I'll be doing another 1,000 km drive soon and will continue testing this. But, as I've endured this for a time I've since then exersized the following practice to keep the car warm while driving.

No heat? Quick instructions:
  1. Come to a full stop with the car, turn on Park-mode
  2. Make sure your climate controls are in 'AUTO' mode
  3. Open driver-side door, close the door
  4. Use mobile app's climate-menu to reduce heat to 19.5'C or so, then TURN OFF CLIMATE
  5. Wait until any wheezing/whirring sounds end (e.g. 10 seconds)
  6. Use mobile app to TURN ON CLIMATE and increase heat gradually from the app
  7. (Listen if heat pump starts making noise or not)
  8. If heat pump isn't making a strong sound when you reach HI, rinse and repeat from #3
It seems that there's multiple modes for operation and the heat pump doesn't turn on with full power on all tries. I've found that some times I need to do this three (3) times to get the heat pump really going. But when it finally does, there's a ton of heat available and I can also turn 'manual' climate settings on without the heat pump shutting down.

If you for some reason can't make out if your heat pump is really ON, ScanMyTesla shows a good 4kW+ (Battery Power) when the car is stationary and when heat pump is really working with settings in HI. There is some kind of a mid-operation mode where some heat is available, ScanMyTesla is typically around 2kW. Following this line of thinking, when ScanMyTesla shows around 0.5kW at this point, you'll usually only end up with the trickle heat option..so very little warm air coming from the vents, if any.
 
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I can't believe they didn't add some auxiliary heating system to the heat-pump. if it's between a heat-pump and a PTC heater ... i'll pick the PTC heater any day. it *will* get the car warm. Heat-pumps simply do not work well under 25F and stop working altogether when you get into the low 20s or lower. North Texas will hit 5F as a low Monday night so maybe it's a good test for Model 3 heatpump owners...

I, too had an issue with the heaters blowing cold. It's due to a supplier sending Tesla defective sensors. I suppose we could blame Tesla for this (perhaps they could've tested every sensor?), but it happens to other manufacturers too. To Tesla's credit, they've bypassed those sensors in one of the recent software updates if it determines that the internal temperature is inconsistent with expectations.

After that software update, my heat is working again, even in the coldest single degree weather the heat-pump is sufficient... and I still haven't had the sensors replaced.
 
Tesla released a revised tsb on the issue.
 

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Tesla released a revised tsb on the issue.

Yes, this prompted me to post the update 2021 Model 3 Heater blowing cold air as I have those high- and low pressure sensors (3 pcs) replaced, but it doesn't solve the issue off getting only a trickle of heat (basically none), when driving in weather conditions -10'C or lower.

To me it would seem like an interoperability or configuration issue how the octo-valve and heat pump operate, which they probably can solve through software, as currently one needs to perform the referred tricks to get proper heat into the car in cold weather conditions.
 
Yes, this prompted me to post the update 2021 Model 3 Heater blowing cold air as I have those high- and low pressure sensors (3 pcs) replaced, but it doesn't solve the issue off getting only a trickle of heat (basically none), when driving in weather conditions -10'C or lower.

To me it would seem like an interoperability or configuration issue how the octo-valve and heat pump operate, which they probably can solve through software, as currently one needs to perform the referred tricks to get proper heat into the car in cold weather conditions.

Interesting, the coldest temps we recorded in my area were - 21c. Only a couple of days and granted my car is parked in a garage when not in use. But lucky enough not to experiance any heater problems this winter. In fact, we're trying to fix an awful whistling noise coming from my drivers window. I actually have to drive with the WI dow down a crack to get some peace and quiet. Still performed well I thought.
 
Update:
I've been seeing my issue materialize over the summer in e.g. +30'C heat as a 'contrary one'; not getting (enough) cooling into the cabin, even though the heat pump was audibly pushing (and Scan My Tesla reported even up to ca. 6kW of energy usage, when cooling was at maximum). End effect was that I could basically get only 'some cooling' in, as if the heat pump was working furiously, but in reality the blower was only pushing outside air in. Even validated this by sitting in another Tesla, which happily had ample cooling available at the same time.

Interestingly enough, while I had such issues, the car still managed to keep +22'C (camp mode) inside during multiple in-car sleepovers, even when it was only +5'C outside during the night this fall up north.

Running out of 'debugging options' (myself), I obviously took the car to Tesla service. They inspected the car and found an evaporator valve to be broken, which according to the service is not a common issue. I must say Tesla's service was neigh impeccable here, they kept me up to date about the issue during the two days it took, no complaints. Note: I'll obviously be doing more trips with the car very soon, I will be sure to report if this did not fix the issue.
 
I mean, we're talking about a company that is so baffled by the concept of cold weather that they don't offer heated wiper jets on the 3/Y, when anyone who's ever lived where it gets legitimately cold understands the importance of being able to spray fluid on the windshield to clear muck when it's below freezing. That's a feature that was on sub-$20,000 cars over 20 years ago, not exactly rocket science to implement.

(I really, really enjoy pulling over to clean my Model 3's windshield repeatedly when the blades alone can't clear road spray effectively in proper cold. SUPER fun.)
Oh really, sub $20,000 cars from over 20 years ago? I've never own a car with heated wiper jets and I've never owned a sub $20,000 car.

But yes, it would be helpful if it had headed coils under the wiper resting area.
 
Update:
Unfortunately, the issue is still present in my M3P (MY21) even with the latest 2021.44.25.2 software version. I had the car at the Tesla shop for Thermal System Test and repairs in October, during which they said to have found a valve that was non-functioning:
Expansion Valve - Liquid Cooled Conderser (Remove & Replace),
but replacing this did not unfortuantely solve the issue. Regardless, see below for part list.

Code:
Parts Replaced or Added                                                          Pcs
SERVICE KIT, SM EXV COIL, HEAT PUMP (1603592-00-A)        1.0
SERVICE KIT, SM EXV CORE, HEAT PUMP (1603591-00-A)        1.0
WASHER, 3/4, STL ZN, SEAL (1111740-00-A)                            1.0
WASHER, 1/2, STL ZN, SEAL (1111738-00-A)                            1.0

I must commend Telsa that all the repairs have been free (like expected) and the free Uber rides have supplemented the bother nicely. The car is obviously driveable, but how I do seem to get the problem re-emerge during winter time has something to do with charging. The issue will happen most frequently when having visited a Tesla Supercharger or a 3rd party fast charging station; the cabin heating seems to 'cool off' no matter what the requested temperature setting (ask) is. Sometimes, this situation lasts for 15 minutes...sometimes even for a couple of hours of driving. It is as if there was a condition in which the Octovalve and Heat Pump warm air is going to a wrong direction and/or car thinks it can get heat from battery to the cabin instead, but doesn't.

Interestingly enough, I could replicate this issue at home with the normal Shuko charger (travel charger). I had first heated the car with my mobile app (all snow had melted from windows, so it had properly heated up), I then stopped/restarted charging a few times, sat in car and suddenly found the cabin heat dwindling down (while I was reading about the new software features). I then tried setting it to e.g. +27.0'C and also HI + changed blower speeds to no avail. Some trickle heat was available at first, but then it died down, while the Heat Pump was still working furiously to meet my ask. (The outside air temp was not that bad, maybe -12'C. Note that when the car is not in this troubled 'mode', it will heat up ok even in -36'C, mind you.)

Some speculation has been thrown in on Facebook forums about the Heat Pump icing up (or failing to de-ice), or there not being enough heat with faster driving speeds in 'extreme cold', but I'm not fully buying into those theories. I've driven the car over 30.000 kilometers, also multiple times in beyond -30'C (that's -22 in Fahrenheit) conditions without any heating issues with plentiful warmth into the cabin. (Yes, I've also driven the car in -36'C with -12'C inside the cabin, when I've experienced this issue.)

TL; DR; Tesla, it is as if there was a certain 'mode or condition' during which e.g. the Octovalve does not deliver air from the Heat Pump to the cabin. In other 'modes' heating works fine even in beyond -30'C, driving or not. The same applies for cooling during hot summer days.
 
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TL; DR; Tesla, it is as if there was a certain 'mode or condition' during which e.g. the Octovalve does not deliver air from the Heat Pump to the cabin. In other 'modes' heating works fine even in beyond -30'C, driving or not. The same applies for cooling during hot summer days.

Interestingly enough, I can instantly replicate the 'mode' by opening the driver's door and leaving it 'ever so slightly open' (you all know the 'click' when door is just about closed, but not really). This (having a door open) causes the climate control to not to push the intended (ask) heat anymore and doesn't do so either when upping the heat to +27.5'C, but instead, the incoming cabing air slowly cools down. At this point, also the Tesla App shows a "white draft" into the cabin instead.

In this test, as I close the door, if I then modify air temperature from the Tesla App, you get the familiar red glow to the back and front of the cabin (in the app, instead of the white winds) and the cabin heats up to the desired temperature OK.

Could it be that the car somehow goes into this very same mode unintended during the point of these issues arising?


FYI, if you're out there freezing in your car, as a last resort try setting it on Park and turn 'Camp mode' ON. I've never seen this issue materialize with camp mode (and have braved myself to sleep in the car for several nights in the cold, as well.)
 
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There are 100+ Model3's in Finland that suffer from this issue. My 02/21 M3P's heating crapped out during a Xmas roadtrip to Lapland and had to be towed to the nearest service. Now, three weeks later, it has finally been taken inside and tested, but I have no idea when I'm going to get my car back. Some folks who have had their M3's taken in early in December are also still waiting to hear any updates for their vehicles.

This seems to be a massive issue here and I'd hazard a guess anywhere else in the world as well. It is quite unfortunate that these issues were already present in the winter of 2020-2021 and it seems that no permanent solution has been found yet.
 
You should check out Bjørn Nyland's video where he does a lot of range testing in -16C
Gives you a lot of good info on energy use for heating, also using seat heater
It's one thing to willfully ride with no heat and forced to drive with no heat. When willfully, if the windshield starts to frost, you can always turn on Defrost and keep on driving. Being forced to drive with no heat is being hopeful that the windshield will not frost over because you can't defrost it.
 
It's been a common thing for EV owners to turn the seat and wheel heaters on and keep the heater off to get better range. It is maybe something you can practice until you get the car serviced.
Well, when it is -25C outside and -10C inside with the windshield freezing up because, you know, you have to breathe to survive, it's not that much of a "practice" thing.

Besides, the car is at Tesla service, "practicing" being cold and miserable in my new car is not something that I can readily now do.
 
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Luckily this issue is being taken seriously, according to second hand reports at least:
There was already a previous TSB for the heat pump sensors, so this has been a known issue for a while. When I was in for something else last year, they were supposed to do that TSB for my 2021 (but they didn't have the time, so now it's still outstanding). Even when that TSB was issued, I don't think the sensor replacement was a permanent fix (only temporary as there was supposed to be a sensor design, while the TSB only replaced the sensors with largely the same ones). Not sure if they eventually developed a permanent fix.
PSA: Tesla Fixing Model 3/Y Heat Pump Sensors That 'Can Fault Over Time' - TeslaNorth.com

There are ways to bypass the sensors. I forget the exact details, but it seems from above defrost and camp mode may be able to do that.

In the cases for this winter, there are other factors, the tweets have the following:
One of the observed causes of a climate failure that has been diagnosed is the front air intake flap freezing open, and blasting cold air into the system when driving on the highway, which is preventing the heat pump system ability to work correctly.

The cold air passes by a sensor, and tells the climate system it’s failing, and then you get the famous error, and the compressor just stops. One of the things they're potentially going to do with software as a quick win is allow the compressor/system to keep working, even if the flap is not functioning properly. And of course they’re trying to figure out how to prevent this in the first place.
In the previous cases, I don't believe it was cold enough for the flaps to freeze, it was purely just the sensors breaking.