2022 - Best SDG&E TOU Plan for Solar/EV/Powerwall?

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I got the letter from SDG&E as expected stating my grandfathering into the 11a-6p peak TOU plan is ending and I need to pick a new plan. The website is offering me the old tiered plan, but am curious what TOU options are best with the new rates that went into effect 1/2022.

I found an old thread from 2020 that our friend @RandyS summed it up this way:

If one is a net annual seller at the end of the true up period, EV-TOU2 is best. If one is a net annual buyer, EV-TOU5 is best. I'm wondering if this is still the case with the new rates. The $16 fee for EV-TOU5 stayed the same, but rates shifted a bit with TOU5 super off peak being ~$.10 and TOU2 being ~$.23. I'm not that great at Excel+math to work it out.

In my case, I'm a net annual seller. I could offset this by using more AC, but am typically conservative on using it. One commuter who works in education, so some months there's less super off peak use due to vacation (Spring break, June/July much less EV use, August partial, November and December are also partial commute months). I'm guessing EV-TOU2 would be best, but that sweet $.10 rate is distracting!

I don't recall seeing this in the other thread, but in my case I have Powerwalls so I'll ride out the 4p-9p peak on battery if that makes a difference. Both TOU2 and TOU5 have super off peak 10-2 March/April (weird, would love to know why this exists - Guessing to cheap out on solar credits during peak production), and would guess the Powerwalls would charge at this time.

The rate comparison tool isn't too helpful. All the plans seem to be within $10 of each other a year. Part of me wants to go back to tiered if I can because it's simple and it must be better if SDG&E is pushing everyone off as much as they can. Why it seems still available to me is a mystery. Part of me wants to switch to TOU2/5 since I have the Powerwalls to manage use and import/export.

Any suggestions?

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I see this is not a popular topic!

 

[SDRick]

I would like to know as well, but you are correct, not many paying attention.

 

[bmms8]

I think you can ask SDGE EV department to run a quick comp for you.

We are on EV TOU5. I dont remember all the ins and outs anymore but from what I remember, since we have two EVs and those are by far the biggest users on the grid, it made sense for us to go that route. No PW here so that 12-6am SOP is nice.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I didn't know they had an EV department. I'll have to give them a call. Thanks!

 

[MSM_M3LR]

Just went solar and waiting delivery on my M3LR in Nov-Jan. From what I understand, SDG&E has a algorithm after your first true up bill to help you pick which plan suits you best. How accurate it is, I'm unsure.

 

[DrChaos]

I got the letter from SDG&E as expected stating my grandfathering into the 11a-6p peak TOU plan is ending and I need to pick a new plan. The website is offering me the old tiered plan, but am curious what TOU options are best with the new rates that went into effect 1/2022.

I found an old thread from 2020 that our friend @RandyS summed it up this way:

If one is a net annual seller at the end of the true up period, EV-TOU2 is best. If one is a net annual buyer, EV-TOU5 is best. I'm wondering if this is still the case with the new rates. The $16 fee for EV-TOU5 stayed the same, but rates shifted a bit with TOU5 super off peak being ~$.10 and TOU2 being ~$.23. I'm not that great at Excel+math to work it out.

In my case, I'm a net annual seller. I could offset this by using more AC, but am typically conservative on using it. One commuter who works in education, so some months there's less super off peak use due to vacation (Spring break, June/July much less EV use, August partial, November and December are also partial commute months). I'm guessing EV-TOU2 would be best, but that sweet $.10 rate is distracting!

I don't recall seeing this in the other thread, but in my case I have Powerwalls so I'll ride out the 4p-9p peak on battery if that makes a difference. Both TOU2 and TOU5 have super off peak 10-2 March/April (weird, would love to know why this exists - Guessing to cheap out on solar credits during peak production), and would guess the Powerwalls would charge at this time.

The rate comparison tool isn't too helpful. All the plans seem to be within $10 of each other a year. Part of me wants to go back to tiered if I can because it's simple and it must be better if SDG&E is pushing everyone off as much as they can. Why it seems still available to me is a mystery. Part of me wants to switch to TOU2/5 since I have the Powerwalls to manage use and import/export.

Any suggestions?

I think the message still applies. I'm a net producer, and I'm on EV-TOU2. The extra $16 per month on EV-TOU5 cannot be offset by solar generation, it will always be hard real-money cash payable to the orcs at SDGE, plus the non-bypassable-charges.

If you drive heavily or have 2 EV's per household & meter, then EV-TOU5 might be better.

The SDGE calculator only looks at cash money not solar credits---you want as many solar credit bucks as possible as those are free usage.

The best rates for EV + solar are EV-TOU2, EV-TOU5 or TOU-DR-P. The last one has an occasional horrible 'penalty rate' on those called days (there were none in the last few years), but if you can avoid using electricity (turn off AC and all lights), with solar you can actually bank big credits on those days as the hours are 2-6pm, not 4-9pm. The main advantage of TOU-DR-P is that in summer the 4-9 peak rate isn't that much above the off-peak rate.


March-April 10am-2pm is when grid level solar generation is so strong vs demand that marginal commodity prices go zero or negative.

But as you have powerwalls it may be a different calculation as you could charge them all up super-off-peak. And only EV-TOU2 and EV-TOU5 have good super off peak rates in winter. But if you go crazy with them you may end up expending battery life for extra generating credits which evaporate every year anyway. It's simpler to go EV-TOU2 and charge them summertime at night along with your EVs and use the powewalls only for the horrible 4-9 pm summer rate.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

The extra $16 per month on EV-TOU5 cannot be offset by solar generation, it will always be hard real-money cash payable to the orcs at SDGE, plus the non-bypassable-charges.

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, I'm leaning EV-TOU2. Considering there's much less driving during summer and a couple of weeks when school is out, EV-TOU5 may not pencil out for us. I called SDG&E but was on hold for too long and lost patience. Will try again this week.

Maybe I misread, but I thought the $16 replaced the $10 NBC's.

https://tariff.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_EV-TOU-2.pdf

https://tariff.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_EV-TOU-5.pdf

EV-TOU2 has $.350 charge/day (~$10/mo) where as EV-TOU5 does not. If I'm understanding correctly, it's a $6 increase to get 10 cents/kwh vs 22 cents/kwh.

 

[DrChaos]

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, I'm leaning EV-TOU2. Considering there's much less driving during summer and a couple of weeks when school is out, EV-TOU5 may not pencil out for us. I called SDG&E but was on hold for too long and lost patience. Will try again this week.

Maybe I misread, but I thought the $16 replaced the $10 NBC's.

https://tariff.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_EV-TOU-2.pdf

https://tariff.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/ELEC_ELEC-SCHEDS_EV-TOU-5.pdf

EV-TOU2 has $.350 charge/day (~$10/mo) where as EV-TOU5 does not. If I'm understanding correctly, it's a $6 increase to get 10 cents/kwh vs 22 cents/kwh.

I think the $16 replaces the minimum charge per day. NBC's are different and are a result of being on the solar NEM plan (which SDG&E is trying to knife). There is no way around NBCs if you have solar.

You can be on EV-TOU2/5 without solar.

The minimum charge per day can be satisfied by consumption you are paying for but the $16 does not.

In my circumstance, with full generation covering all use in the year, my net out the door real money $ was like $120 per year, but EV-TOU-5 would be around $240.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I think the $16 replaces the minimum charge per day. NBC's are different and are a result of being on the solar NEM plan (which SDG&E is trying to knife). There is no way around NBCs if you have solar.

You can be on EV-TOU2/5 without solar.

The minimum charge per day can be satisfied by consumption you are paying for but the $16 does not.

In my circumstance, with full generation covering all use in the year, my net out the door real money $ was like $120 per year, but EV-TOU-5 would be around $240.

Ok, that makes sense now. Looking like EV-TOU2 is the better of the two for me. Good thing SDG&E makes this simple. Tiered was the good ol' days!

 

[GuyDude]

Chimming in here. I have a 12.24 KW Tesla Solar system which produces an average of 80kwh per day. Two model 3's that each have their own dedicated wall charger. I switched to EV TAU-5 and its fantastic so far. Average credit of -$140 per month. It's wild

 

[thanhvcao]

I am tesla solar+ev( 16kw 40x400, mx 100d) with Tou-ev5 for couple months. It saved me alot and still wonder ev-2 or ev-5 is the best
my solar just turn on last moth so need few more months to figure out if i am producer or consumer so far i get -10 kwh per day so kind of producer with my daily driving. My Mx consume about 40kwh per day. will be back to update the result

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

I called SDG&E and talked to a solar/EV specialist. We spent nearly an hour on the phone and I can't say I hung up with any more info than when I originally called. EV-TOU5 was suggested as an option along with TOU-DR1 as the latter has a baseline allowance, but there were 6 months in the last year I exceeded the baseline which made that plan not great. The agent didn't seem to have any more detailed info that I could get out of the website which basically states all the plans cost me the same: NBCx12 which is roughly $119/yr. Since I'm a net producer, I wanted to understand which plan would generate the most NEM credits however that wasn't something attainable.

I could not find a good tool to ingest the Green Button data to provide some good analytics. I had signed up for Enertalk some time back but it seems half baked.

In the absence of any new info, I think I'll be choosing EV-TOU2. I have the option of continuing on DR-SES in my current arrangement until July 31 which is $.50/kwh during peak, semi peak, and off peak since SG&E changed the pricing w/o notification earlier in the year. I'm thinking it's advantageous to stay on this plan one more month since my net grid use is -776 kWh to the grid so far in June. I assume I am getting credited at this rate from sun up to sun down.

Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[72Five10]

This topic is just confusing because SDGE makes it so complicated. I've been analyzing my data from SDGE as well as from Enphase Solar with Consumption meters and still haven't figured out the clear cut plan that would be best for us. We are currently on TOUDR1 and last year net produced (~1.5MWh), so we had credits. We just received our 3 Long Range this month and now collecting some usage information, albeit only with Level 1 charging until we can get our Wall Connector installed.

General usage pattern with 3.6kw system:

• Try to run AC only when solar can cover (or when it gets to a sweltering 80 degrees plus - the family wants to use it!! LOL)
• Plan to Charge at Super Off Peak
• Average 24hr usage w/o AC/Heat Pump (HP) or Charging ~10-11kWh/day
• Average Month 2021 382kWh

We went crazy with consumption this past winter since I really just wanted to run the HP at will and see what usage would be like. Result was that we ended up net consuming Dec-Feb, paying small amounts for Jan/Feb. However we have been net producing so far, and will have to assess this June month and future data with home charging.

What I think about the rates (current published as of 06/22): As long as I am still net producing and can stay within the baselines - the summer DR1 vs EV2 rates are better (however I think that means that my net value per KW banked is worth a little bit less so exchange for my net usage is not as good. So I will have to keep an eye on baseline now that we are EV charging and if we exceed, then plan to switch to EV2 immediately.

For the winter though I think is beneficial enough to make the switchover at that time.

So for us, Solar and EV, in the long run I feel like we will end up with TOU EV2. If we had storage, based off our usage patterns I feel like we would stay on TOU DR1 at the lowest cost.

My Disclaimer: Based on how I understand Net Metering, and I could be wrong because again its so complicated haha

In the absence of any new info, I think I'll be choosing EV-TOU2. I have the option of continuing on DR-SES in my current arrangement until July 31 which is $.50/kwh during peak, semi peak, and off peak since SG&E changed the pricing w/o notification earlier in the year. I'm thinking it's advantageous to stay on this plan one more month since my net grid use is -776 kWh to the grid so far in June. I assume I am getting credited at this rate from sun up to sun down.

I think in this scenario you are coming out on top, and should continue to do so?

 

[SD2020]

I had an 8.4kw system with 2PW. And on DR1 plan. Year 1 we ended up with $400 credit. But this year I realized we drove much more (Model X) and currently running over $1000 balance before tuning up in Oct. Thinking about switching to EV-TOU5 in the future so we can take advantage of the 10c rate at night.

 

[EllesBelles]

Chimming in here. I have a 12.24 KW Tesla Solar system which produces an average of 80kwh per day. Two model 3's that each have their own dedicated wall charger. I switched to EV TAU-5 and its fantastic so far. Average credit of -$140 per month. It's wild

Hi GuyDude,
I just installed solar and of course in the winter months, I'm not seeing as much as I hope to see in the summer. I am eager to see how the solar generation looks over the year. Would you please share your annual chart or share how much you average in December versus June/ January versus July, etc. Thanks!

 

[DrChaos]

Hi GuyDude,
I just installed solar and of course in the winter months, I'm not seeing as much as I hope to see in the summer. I am eager to see how the solar generation looks over the year. Would you please share your annual chart or share how much you average in December versus June/ January versus July, etc. Thanks!

]April/May are usually the highest generation months in San Diego, clearest skies, and sun angle is right vs typical angled installations. June has clouds. July can be good but there is more haze/light clouds and temperatures are higher which reduces solar panel efficiency.

For me generally max production month is 1.9x December/January months. Congrats for getting in before the horrible not-really NEM 3.0 and SDGE malevolence. (It's no longer net energy metering in reality).

 

[Iain]

It’s been a year so I’m wondering how you guys are doing? I just installed solar with 2x powerwalls. I also own an EV and I’m signed up for EV-TOU 5. I can change my plan at the end of the month, if I need to but I’m such a rookie I have no idea yet what’s the best plan out there. If anyone has ideas I’d love to hear them.

 

[Unclepaul]

Figuring out all this will most always be imprecise, as Solar production and weather varies so much day to day.

Most of us just make our best guess what system to go on, based on our expected usage. Over time you will get better at predicting your Solar production and electricity usage. Usually after your true up, you can re-evaulate your best solution for the following year.

There is also usually a mental battle between what is the most comfortable and what is best financially. Saving the last few pennies will often be less comfortable for others in the household.

In my area (SoCal) a Quiet Cool whole house fan allows many homeowners to get by with far fewer Solar panels/batteries. That cost savings can also be taken into financial consideration when calculating which total system would be least expensive. Sometimes cutting down or trimming a tree,that is shading your solar panels part of the year.will also be cost effective, but perhaps less pretty.

Balancing between cost, speed of financial payoff, and comfort can be challenging.

 

[Iain]

Figuring out all this will most always be imprecise, as Solar production and weather varies so much day to day.

Most of us just make our best guess what system to go on, based on our expected usage. Over time you will get better at predicting your Solar production and electricity usage. Usually after your true up, you can re-evaulate your best solution for the following year.

There is also usually a mental battle between what is the most comfortable and what is best financially. Saving the last few pennies will often be less comfortable for others in the household.

In my area (SoCal) a Quiet Cool whole house fan allows many homeowners to get by with far fewer Solar panels/batteries. That cost savings can also be taken into financial consideration when calculating which total system would be least expensive. Sometimes cutting down or trimming a tree,that is shading your solar panels part of the year.will also be cost effective, but perhaps less pretty.

Balancing between cost, speed of financial payoff, and comfort can be challenging.

Thanks for your reply. I installed a whole house fan last year and that reduced my AC use by 90%. I look forward to the learning curve.