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21 Model Y 12 volt Battery Quits

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My 21 model Y long range was parked in my garage yesterday, 130 miles of charge 69k miles. I got in, and no display, lights, nada. Can’t open the door so I used the manual lever to get out. The app tells me to replace the 12 volt battery ‘soon’ - but the car is dead, no warnings. Now waiting till Monday for service to replace it.
I am very glad the car was in the garage when this happened. Hope Tesla figures out how to provide some warning of this failure BEFORE it happens.
 
I ask because just looking at voltage is typically not a reliable way to tell battery health. If I understand correctly, you took 12V battery outside the car (fully working in the car and no problems powering on the car), after charging on your BMW charger for two days, you measured it was properly charging and also fully charged (~14.0-14.5V charging voltage, ~13.1-13.5V float voltage, and OCV of 12.9V-13.1V off the charger). Then after sitting with nothing attached it measured 11.7V?

Which model BMW charger are you using? Advanced Battery Charging System (Deltran rebadge) or the BMW Battery Charger (CTEK rebadge). Or are you using a trickle charger (like for motorcycles)?

Again, what battery size does your motorcycle use? I find it hard to believe it would use a larger battery. From looking it up around 20Ah is about the max most motorcycles use and the Tesla one is 45Ah. Also, while Tesla charges a very good price for the features (only $85), I don't see that as a bad thing, nor necessarily it is of any worst quality than other flooded/sealed batteries (in fact it is a maintenance free with a vent port that is very rare for such in inexpensive price).

Are you talking about the 51R battery Tesla uses? It's a fairly common car battery size used by quite a few cars (a bunch of Acuras, Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V etc, Nissan Leaf/Versa).
You can easily find AGM versions in pretty much all the big auto parts stores (as well as flooded):

People have swapped in AGM batteries before with no problems.


Tesla didn't change it to reject those batteries specifically, rather the early warning system that have saved so many people, doesn't play nice with some lithium replacements given they don't match the profile of a healthy lead acid battery (there are some people here that claim they bought a non-Ohmmu LFP 12V and it worked fine for them). It's pointless for Tesla to release a lithium replacement for the 12V models given for most people, they are getting 4 years out of the battery, so they will only replace it once or twice in their car ownership, in which case they would never recoup the cost of the lithium.

Your annual recommendation doesn't match any of the real world cases I have seen in the Model 3/Y, even the worst cases are getting 2 years, many are getting to 4 years or more. My car is now 3.5 years old and still on the original 12V battery.

I ask because just looking at voltage is typically not a reliable way to tell battery health. If I understand correctly, you took 12V battery outside the car (fully working in the car and no problems powering on the car), after charging on your BMW charger for two days, you measured it was properly charging and also fully charged (~14.0-14.5V charging voltage, ~13.1-13.5V float voltage, and OCV of 12.9V-13.1V off the charger). Then after sitting with nothing attached it measured 11.7V?

Which model BMW charger are you using? Advanced Battery Charging System (Deltran rebadge) or the BMW Battery Charger (CTEK rebadge). Or are you using a trickle charger (like for motorcycles)?

Again, what battery size does your motorcycle use? I find it hard to believe it would use a larger battery. From looking it up around 20Ah is about the max most motorcycles use and the Tesla one is 45Ah. Also, while Tesla charges a very good price for the features (only $85), I don't see that as a bad thing, nor necessarily it is of any worst quality than other flooded/sealed batteries (in fact it is a maintenance free with a vent port that is very rare for such in inexpensive price).

Are you talking about the 51R battery Tesla uses? It's a fairly common car battery size used by quite a few cars (a bunch of Acuras, Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V etc, Nissan Leaf/Versa).
You can easily find AGM versions in pretty much all the big auto parts stores (as well as flooded):

People have swapped in AGM batteries before with no problems.


Tesla didn't change it to reject those batteries specifically, rather the early warning system that have saved so many people, doesn't play nice with some lithium replacements given they don't match the profile of a healthy lead acid battery (there are some people here that claim they bought a non-Ohmmu LFP 12V and it worked fine for them). It's pointless for Tesla to release a lithium replacement for the 12V models given for most people, they are getting 4 years out of the battery, so they will only replace it once or twice in their car ownership, in which case they would never recoup the cost of the lithium.

Your annual recommendation doesn't match any of the real world cases I have seen in the Model 3/Y, even the worst cases are getting 2 years, many are getting to 4 years or more. My car is now 3.5 years old and still on the original 12V battery.
Awesome sauce for you!
Having had one of mine die within the first year of ownership, and all the horror stories of failing 12v batteries, I'll stick to replacing mine annually preventively. You do you I'll do me. Also interesting to note that my Tesla tech friend replaced HIS annually, as well. You can anecdotally go on about how long some last, and I can show you just as many threads on this site alone about premature failures. To each their own. I'll stick with annual replacement... Though I may try an AGM...
 
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The design problem here that I'm most unhappy about is the dying-while-sleeping part. Obviously they've worked around the issue when the car is awake: it just stays awake to keep the main battery powering things. It doesn't seem like it would've been too much a stretch to have a very low power circuit running off the main battery whose only job is to detect failure of the 12v battery while asleep, which then immediate wakes the car to run off the HV battery while the car spams some alerts about the situation.
 
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The HV battery is essentially disconnected from the rest of the car when the car is asleep. And the HV contactors are flipped using power from the 12V. There would be no way the HV battery can be used to power anything while asleep.

There should already be a LV battery monitor which indeed wakes the car when the LV battery needs charging. But the root of the problem is lead acid battery monitoring is not reliable and that’s just inherent to the type of battery. That’s why Tesla switch to Li-ion LV batteries for newer cars.
 
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For longevity, Lead-Acid batteries should be fully charged, not over-charged or under-charged.
Tesla does not charge fully the 12V battery, leading to a sulfated battery. I had my 12V battery fail, I tried to charge it with my smart charger. The charger diagnosed the battery as sulfated and started the charge profile to de-sulfate the battery.
 
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For longevity, Lead-Acid batteries should be fully charged, not over-charged or under-charged.
Tesla does not charge fully the 12V battery, leading to a sulfated battery. I had my 12V battery fail, I tried to charge it with my smart charger. The charger diagnosed the battery as sulfated and started the charge profile to de-sulfate the battery.
I'm pretty sure Tesla does fully charge the battery, just that Tesla doesn't necessarily run a desulfation cycle, plus Teslas naturally cycle the battery more than most ICE cars given it is keeping the car ready to wake by internet connection.
 
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