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21 Model Y 12 volt Battery Quits

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My 21 model Y long range was parked in my garage yesterday, 130 miles of charge 69k miles. I got in, and no display, lights, nada. Can’t open the door so I used the manual lever to get out. The app tells me to replace the 12 volt battery ‘soon’ - but the car is dead, no warnings. Now waiting till Monday for service to replace it.
I am very glad the car was in the garage when this happened. Hope Tesla figures out how to provide some warning of this failure BEFORE it happens.
 
Yes, high temperatures are harder on an ICE 12V battery than low temps. Both extremes take their toll.

Living in high-heat Texas (DFW region) I will continue to replace lead-acid battery in my Tesla every 2.5-3 years. I won't wait for a failure.

That said, the 12V batteries in my Toyota hybrids (Avalon and Prius) last much longer, 5-6 year. It's a much more robust (and expensive!) battery, gel/sealed 12V.

This may be due to size of the battery, Tesla batteries are like 1/4 of the size. So it may fail instantly after just 1 lead cell/plate fails.
 
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This may be due to size of the battery, Tesla batteries are like 1/4 of the size. So it may fail instantly after just 1 lead cell/plate fails.
Tesla uses a 51R (~9.4x5x8.75", 45Ah) for the Model 3/Y which is not a small battery vs the Prius.

The Prius uses H4 is ~10.4x7x8.6" and ~50Ah.

Tesla however uses an inexpensive conventional flooded lead acid (although maintenance free with a vent port, a rare feature for a conventional battery), while Toyota supposedly used a more expensive AGM battery for the Prius.
 
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Just had this happen to me as well! It's hot this summer in TX, and this car has ~80K miles over the ~2.5 years we've owned it. There was never any pre-warnings leading up to failure. My wife went on a Costco run, came home, plugged the car into our Wall Charger to do a little mid-day charging (we drive a lot of miles, so in the TX summer heat we end up charging mid-day sometimes!). As best I can reconstruct the timeline, right after the charging session finished (to 60%), the car went into 12v-death-mode. It was a few hours later in the evening when I went out to get in the car, and found the door wouldn't open. Checked my app and it couldn't even wake or talk to the car :/

So I went through the basic bullshit to get basic access to the car: pulled the little wires out the front bumper hole, hooked up a little 12v trickle charger I happened to have in the garage to those to get the frunk popped. I checked the service manual on my phone, then pulled the HEPA filter unit out to make room, and tried jumper-cabling it to an old BMW running in the driveway. That did revive the car enough to open the passenger door and light up the display. Lots and lots of error codes popping. The battery ones were obvious, but also a bunch of seemingly-unrelated ones about various modules around the car and how some things wouldn't work right due to low voltage. HVAC was non-functional, the whole driver side of the car remained inoperable (the left doors/windows, etc), which seems really stupid. Also couldn't unlock the charge cable from the charge port, because that was inoperable too (can't charge the HV battery, either, wouldn't even light up the Tesla logo by the charge port).

It was ~11pm on a Weds night by the time I got to this point, and decided to book a Mobile Service appt through the app. They responded with a first available slot of Monday afternoon o_O! I took the slot for now anyways and went to bed, doing some googling and youtube watching on various related topics/procedures.

Today I woke up and just drove down to the local Service Center (in a different car, obviously!) and asked if I could just buy the battery and install it myself. They had no problem with that and had one in my hands in a few minutes, same AtlasBX model I had before, $80 + tax. I turned the car off from the Safety menu, popped the rear seats out and disconnected that one battery-related connector in the passenger side corner that some videos reference, Just In Case. Then the battery swap itself was pretty much like any other car (other than the annoyance of it being hidden behind the HEPA unit). Once the battery was back in and the rear seat power connector plugged back in, the car booted up fine and cleared all related messages and we're back to normal.

My main complaint about all this is the total lack of warning. With all the advanced diagnostics on this car, it should've known that the battery was imminently failing and given me a little warning to replace it before it became a catastrophic failure. Given it's easy to swap and can be picked up for $80, my advice would be: if your 12v hasn't been changed in the past ~50K miles or past ~2 years, just proactively swap in a new one while it's easy and not yet failing!
 
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Anually! In many cases you're just throwing away a good part and polluting for no reason. As we can see, deterioration varies a lot depending on the conditions. Mine lasted 4.5 years and I have winters which are normally very hard on those batteries. EDIT: I was lucky enough to get one weird error message so I looked in the service menu and I had a couple of low voltage warnings from some modules. The Tesla tech didn't think they meant a bad 12V but I decided it was a good signal...
Hot weather might warrant more frequent replacement... but a year seems excessive. I don't think I've heard cases of batteries failing within a year except maybe a defective one from the start.

It's unfortunate but a lead acid battery seems very difficult to "predict" and warn in advance.
 
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Just had this happen to me as well! It's hot this summer in TX, and this car has ~80K miles over the ~2.5 years we've owned it. There was never any pre-warnings leading up to failure. My wife went on a Costco run, came home, plugged the car into our Wall Charger to do a little mid-day charging (we drive a lot of miles, so in the TX summer heat we end up charging mid-day sometimes!). As best I can reconstruct the timeline, right after the charging session finished (to 60%), the car went into 12v-death-mode. It was a few hours later in the evening when I went out to get in the car, and found the door wouldn't open. Checked my app and it couldn't even wake or talk to the car :/

So I went through the basic bullshit to get basic access to the car: pulled the little wires out the front bumper hole, hooked up a little 12v trickle charger I happened to have in the garage to those to get the frunk popped. I checked the service manual on my phone, then pulled the HEPA filter unit out to make room, and tried jumper-cabling it to an old BMW running in the driveway. That did revive the car enough to open the passenger door and light up the display. Lots and lots of error codes popping. The battery ones were obvious, but also a bunch of seemingly-unrelated ones about various modules around the car and how some things wouldn't work right due to low voltage. HVAC was non-functional, the whole driver side of the car remained inoperable (the left doors/windows, etc), which seems really stupid. Also couldn't unlock the charge cable from the charge port, because that was inoperable too (can't charge the HV battery, either, wouldn't even light up the Tesla logo by the charge port).

It was ~11pm on a Weds night by the time I got to this point, and decided to book a Mobile Service appt through the app. They responded with a first available slot of Monday afternoon o_O! I took the slot for now anyways and went to bed, doing some googling and youtube watching on various related topics/procedures.

Today I woke up and just drove down to the local Service Center (in a different car, obviously!) and asked if I could just buy the battery and install it myself. They had no problem with that and had one in my hands in a few minutes, same AtlasBX model I had before, $80 + tax. I turned the car off from the Safety menu, popped the rear seats out and disconnected that one battery-related connector in the passenger side corner that some videos reference, Just In Case. Then the battery swap itself was pretty much like any other car (other than the annoyance of it being hidden behind the HEPA unit). Once the battery was back in and the rear seat power connector plugged back in, the car booted up fine and cleared all related messages and we're back to normal.

My main complaint about all this is the total lack of warning. With all the advanced diagnostics on this car, it should've known that the battery was imminently failing and given me a little warning to replace it before it became a catastrophic failure. Given it's easy to swap and can be picked up for $80, my advice would be: if your 12v hasn't been changed in the past ~50K miles or past ~2 years, just proactively swap in a new one while it's easy and not yet failing!
It DOES have an early warning system and it will keep the car awake when that triggers. The problem is 12V batteries can have sudden failures. No detection algorithm out there is perfect.
 
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It DOES have an early warning system and it will keep the car awake when that triggers. The problem is 12V batteries can have sudden failures. No detection algorithm out there is perfect.
HAHAHAHA! So the existing "early warning system" is, in fact, worthless with a 12V lead acid battery.

I agree that annually is overkill, but in fact, after 10 years of living in TX, with 100f degree days now occurring anytime from May to October, $80 to proactively replace the battery is a minor expense. Getting stranded in 100f temps, on pavement or blacktop, is in fact, life threatening.

I know, I know...this topic has been beaten to death in multiple threads... ;)
 
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HAHAHAHA! So the existing "early warning system" is, in fact, worthless with a 12V lead acid battery.

I agree that annually is overkill, but in fact, after 10 years of living in TX, with 100f degree days now occurring anytime from May to October, $80 to proactively replace the battery is a minor expense. Getting stranded in 100f temps, on pavement or blacktop, is in fact, life threatening.

I know, I know...this topic has been beaten to death in multiple threads... ;)
It's not worthless, it has saved many people from being stuck with a dead 12V (including in this thread!). All I am saying is that it's not going to catch 100% of the cases.

I should note however, if your 12V dies while the car is awake, it generally isn't an issue, as the HV battery is supplying power. Generally it happens when car is asleep, but in those cases people aren't likely to be in a situation where they would be threatened.
 
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Annually. Period . It's smaller than my motorcycle battery. Last time I replaced it, annually , it was reading 11.7 volts, fully charged. No low voltage warnings from the car at all.
I'm not taking any chances . Cheap insurance
What kind of battery does your motorcycle use? When you are saying you are replacing it annually are you talking about the OEM Model Y 12V lead acid battery? It's the 85B24LS, which is a 45Ah battery that is 51R size (~9.4x5x8.75).

And how were you judging it was fully charged and where were you getting that reading from?

From other threads, Tesla's charging circuit doesn't let the battery get that low before recharging.
 
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I would place it on a BMW charger for two days after removing it. Fully charging it. If the battery can no longer hold a full charge, it can't hold a full charge. It doesn't really matter how often the car tries to charge it from the big battery. I "get it from" a simple electrical meter. Directly on the battery posts. Pretty simple. Certainly not rocket science.

Not only is the 12 battery very small, it's also very cheap. I haven't seen a glass matt battery in that size, though one may exist, but it would be interesting to try one, to see if the BMS would tolerate it.

I tried the Ohmmu a couple years ago. Fantastic battery... Until of course a Tesla update changed the BMS software and car rejected it. But that's what Musk does. Offers nothing better but won't let anyone else do so either. I just don't understand why he doesn't partner with someone, and offer a 12v lithium battery for older models. It makes perfect sense to do so.

I'm so unimpressed with the factory 12v battery that I actually keep a second new one on hand, on a battery tender, for the inevitable dead battery with no warning I'll get. Even with changing them annually. It'll happen.

The mobile service guy always chuckles when he sees it.... But doesn't call me crazy or try to talk me out of doing so. Lol
 
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I would place it on a BMW charger for two days after removing it. Fully charging it. If the battery can no longer hold a full charge, it can't hold a full charge. It doesn't really matter how often the car tries to charge it from the big battery. I "get it from" a simple electrical meter. Directly on the battery posts. Pretty simple. Certainly not rocket science.

Not only is the 12 battery very small, it's also very cheap. I haven't seen a glass matt battery in that size, though one may exist, but it would be interesting to try one, to see if the BMS would tolerate it.

I tried the Ohmmu a couple years ago. Fantastic battery... Until of course a Tesla update changed the BMS software and car rejected it. But that's what Musk does. Offers nothing better but won't let anyone else do so either. I just don't understand why he doesn't partner with someone, and offer a 12v lithium battery for older models. It makes perfect sense to do so.

I'm so unimpressed with the factory 12v battery that I actually keep a second new one on hand, on a battery tender, for the inevitable dead battery with no warning I'll get. Even with changing them annually. It'll happen.

The mobile service guy always chuckles when he sees it.... But doesn't call me crazy or try to talk me out of doing so. Lol

Very cheap? They a re $200 a pop. Or are you not using Tesla battery but using some 3rd party one?
 
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I would place it on a BMW charger for two days after removing it. Fully charging it. If the battery can no longer hold a full charge, it can't hold a full charge. It doesn't really matter how often the car tries to charge it from the big battery. I "get it from" a simple electrical meter. Directly on the battery posts. Pretty simple. Certainly not rocket science.
I ask because just looking at voltage is typically not a reliable way to tell battery health. If I understand correctly, you took 12V battery outside the car (fully working in the car and no problems powering on the car), after charging on your BMW charger for two days, you measured it was properly charging and also fully charged (~14.0-14.5V charging voltage, ~13.1-13.5V float voltage, and OCV of 12.9V-13.1V off the charger). Then after sitting with nothing attached it measured 11.7V?

Which model BMW charger are you using? Advanced Battery Charging System (Deltran rebadge) or the BMW Battery Charger (CTEK rebadge). Or are you using a trickle charger (like for motorcycles)?
Not only is the 12 battery very small, it's also very cheap.
Again, what battery size does your motorcycle use? I find it hard to believe it would use a larger battery. From looking it up around 20Ah is about the max most motorcycles use and the Tesla one is 45Ah. Also, while Tesla charges a very good price for the features (only $85), I don't see that as a bad thing, nor necessarily it is of any worst quality than other flooded/sealed batteries (in fact it is a maintenance free with a vent port that is very rare for such in inexpensive price).
I haven't seen a glass matt battery in that size, though one may exist, but it would be interesting to try one, to see if the BMS would tolerate it.
Are you talking about the 51R battery Tesla uses? It's a fairly common car battery size used by quite a few cars (a bunch of Acuras, Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V etc, Nissan Leaf/Versa).
You can easily find AGM versions in pretty much all the big auto parts stores (as well as flooded):

People have swapped in AGM batteries before with no problems.

I tried the Ohmmu a couple years ago. Fantastic battery... Until of course a Tesla update changed the BMS software and car rejected it. But that's what Musk does. Offers nothing better but won't let anyone else do so either. I just don't understand why he doesn't partner with someone, and offer a 12v lithium battery for older models. It makes perfect sense to do so.
Tesla didn't change it to reject those batteries specifically, rather the early warning system that have saved so many people, doesn't play nice with some lithium replacements given they don't match the profile of a healthy lead acid battery (there are some people here that claim they bought a non-Ohmmu LFP 12V and it worked fine for them). It's pointless for Tesla to release a lithium replacement for the 12V models given for most people, they are getting 4 years out of the battery, so they will only replace it once or twice in their car ownership, in which case they would never recoup the cost of the lithium.
I'm so unimpressed with the factory 12v battery that I actually keep a second new one on hand, on a battery tender, for the inevitable dead battery with no warning I'll get. Even with changing them annually. It'll happen.
Your annual recommendation doesn't match any of the real world cases I have seen in the Model 3/Y, even the worst cases are getting 2 years, many are getting to 4 years or more. My car is now 3.5 years old and still on the original 12V battery.
 
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