21" Staggered tires all seasons?

[beezel]

I'm having some trouble finding any tires in the 21" 245/35/21 265/35/21 range that do not have the giant "DO NOT USE BELOW 45 DEGREES WE WILL NOT REPAIR THEM THEY WILL CATCH FIRE AND YOU WILL DIE" warnings.

What are you guys running and how has that gone? I live in the PNW with mild-ish winters but we definitely have a few weeks of freezing and a few months near it. I REALLY don't want to have to buy another set of wheels just for rubber!

I've looked at tirerack at the Pirelli PZeros and the ContiSport Contact 5Ps.

I would love to sacrifice some 'ultimate summer performance' for tire longevity and all season use!

Any suggestions?

 

[JohnnyG]

Wow... I had to see it myself. Yea, there are absolutely no all season tires (at Tire Rack) in either size.
You can get winter tires in the 245/35/21 size, but that's it.

 

[beezel]

Wow... I had to see it myself. Yea, there are absolutely no all season tires (at Tire Rack) in either size.
You can get winter tires in the 245/35/21 size, but that's it.

I've called around to a few local tire shops with varying brands and they all come back to Pirelli, Conti and Falken as the only 3 and they're all pure summer tire with dire warnings.

I used to have PZeros on my WRX, but I don't remember any warnings. They did me no wrong come winter, so I'm wondering if it's just a CYA move on their parts vs a real problem for those of us that get a bit cold.

 

[JohnnyG]

I've called around to a few local tire shops with varying brands and they all come back to Pirelli, Conti and Falken as the only 3 and they're all pure summer tire with dire warnings.

I used to have PZeros on my WRX, but I don't remember any warnings. They did me no wrong come winter, so I'm wondering if it's just a CYA move on their parts vs a real problem for those of us that get a bit cold.

Let me use the Pirelli's as an example, being that you've mentioned the P-Zero.

There are no less than 18 different variations of the P-Zero. Some are Summer, some are All-Season, and some are Track. The P-Zero Nero variation (as an example) has at least 5 variances of it's own; some of which are Summer, and some All-Season. I'm guessing you were running an All-Season variation on your WRX. I used to run the P-Zero Nero All-Season on my Mustang GT.
I would extremely highly seriously recommend against running max performance summer only tires in the winter: especially below 45 degrees Fahrenheit.

If you have more tire questions, I'd be more than happy to help. Honestly, If you have a few months of cold, and possibly icy weather there, I'd recommend getting a set of 19" wheels, and at a minimum put a set of High Performance All-Season tires on them. If it stays below 45 degrees Fahrenheit during that time, I'd recommend putting Winter tires on them. Something like the Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3.

Edit: Here's a link to Tire Tack's list of Pirelli's models --> Pirelli

 

[beezel]

Let me use the Pirelli's as an example, being that you've mentioned the P-Zero.

There are no less than 18 different variations of the P-Zero. Some are Summer, some are All-Season, and some are Track. The P-Zero Nero variation has at least 5 variances of it's own; some of which are Summer, and some All-Season. I would extremely highly seriously recommend against running max performance summer only tires in the winter: especially below 45 degrees Fahrenheit.

If you have more tire questions, I'd be more than happy to help. Honestly, If you have a few months of cold, and possibly icy weather there, I'd recommend getting a set of 19" wheels, and at a minimum put a set of All-Season tires on them. If it stays below 45 degrees Fahrenheit during that time, I'd recommend putting Winter tires on them. Something like the Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3.

Edit: Here's a link to Tire Tack's list of Pirelli's models --> Pirelli

Thanks for the info, but I am well aware of how many models are out there and the difference between the two.

That is in fact the entire reason for this post. Those Sottozero 3s are not offered in the staggered sizes needed for 21" turbines.

So, back to the original question, is there any tire you know of that actually has the right sizes and is all-season or winter specific? I can't find a single one.

 

[JohnnyG]

I know of absolutely not one tire in our 21" sizes (staggered or not) that is made in an All-Season variant.
The Winter Sottozero 3 is the only Winter tire that I'm aware of for our 21" wheels, but not in the 265 of the staggered.

 

[Az_Rael]

"DO NOT USE BELOW 45 DEGREES WE WILL NOT REPAIR THEM THEY WILL CATCH FIRE AND YOU WILL DIE" warnings

Wow, where are these warnings at? I can't see them on Tire Rack or manufacturer's website. Trying to find the info for the Pilot super sports.

I am about to get my arachnids installed with the Michelin pilot super sports they came with. I guess I assumed that as long as I didn't have snow or ice I would be good. We do get hard freezes here in the desert, just without precipitation. So sometimes it will be 15 or 20 in the morning driving in even if it is 50 to 60 during the day.

 

[beezel]

Wow, where are these warnings at? I can't see them on Tire Rack or manufacturer's website. Trying to find the info for the Pilot super sports.

I am about to get my arachnids installed with the Michelin pilot super sports they came with. I guess I assumed that as long as I didn't have snow or ice I would be good. We do get hard freezes here in the desert, just without precipitation. So sometimes it will be 15 or 20 in the morning driving in even if it is 50 to 60 during the day.

It is in the description. I find this, or similar wording, in all the MAX SUMMER or ULTRA SUPER MAX EXTRA SUMMER type listings. Which, unfortunately, are the only types available for staggered.

 

[JohnnyG]

Wow, where are these warnings at? I can't see them on Tire Rack or manufacturer's website. Trying to find the info for the Pilot super sports.

I am about to get my arachnids installed with the Michelin pilot super sports they came with. I guess I assumed that as long as I didn't have snow or ice I would be good. We do get hard freezes here in the desert, just without precipitation. So sometimes it will be 15 or 20 in the morning driving in even if it is 50 to 60 during the day.

I'm late for a very important date! There's more info out there you can search using Google, but Tire Rack has a ton of great info too, like this! --> Testing on Ice: Winter / Snow vs. All-Season vs. Summer Tires

 

[beezel]

I'm late for a very important date! There's more info out there you can search using Google, but Tire Rack has a ton of great info too, like this! --> Testing on Ice: Winter / Snow vs. All-Season vs. Summer Tires

Thanks again for the relevant link, Johnny. I do know all about the differences in grip, but my main concern is the tire actually making it out of winter OK.

If it is actually icey or snowy, Portland just shuts down. I can also work from home. I'm more concerned with the tires sitting there at freezing temps and having the compound break down and render the tire useless!

 

[Az_Rael]

It is in the description. I find this, or similar wording, in all the MAX SUMMER or ULTRA SUPER MAX EXTRA SUMMER type listings. Which, unfortunately, are the only types available for staggered.

View attachment 250649

OK, so the Michelin's aren't nearly so specific:

While Pilot Super Sport tires are designed to allow sports cars, sporty coupes, performance sedans and supercars to achieve their full potential in dry and wet conditions, like all summer tires they are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

So "near-freezing". I don't know that I would classify 45 degrees as "near-freezing" in any other context, so I wonder what the actual limit is on the Michelin's.

I'm late for a very important date! There's more info out there you can search using Google, but Tire Rack has a ton of great info too, like this! --> Testing on Ice: Winter / Snow vs. All-Season vs. Summer Tires

Well, snow and ice is not an issue for me here. It has snowed three times in the 7 years I have lived here (less than 6" total), and been icy just once.

 

[tomas]

Yep. No options. After sliding around for a winter plus 2 pothole induced blowouts, I went to 20" wheels and all season tires. Pirelli P7 cinturato all season plus. If you are going to keep the car a while I strongly feel 20 is the ideal wheel for the S. wish Tesla agreed.

 

[Az_Rael]

So here is my climate data. This is why I was contemplating running summer tires year round. But I was unaware that 45 degrees might be the lower limit on them.

 

[tomas]

I rode the conti 21s all winter first year in Chicago. No problem with cold affecting compound. I suspect the mfg doesn't want you on ice or snow with them. It is certainly doable. Try for a winter. But I declaim all liability.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

I looked at all the major manufacturers -- Michelin, Pirelli, Continental, BF Goodrich, Bridgestone, Firestone, Goodyear, Nitto, Yokohama, Hankook, and General.

Only a few of those manufacturers even make a 245/35R21. And those that do, every one of them is a summer tire. The lone exception is Pirelli, who makes the SottoZero winter tire in that size.

Look at it this way: If you were to find a staggered set of 21"s in an all-season variant, they would cost you $400 per tire = $1600.

A nearly-new set of 19" Tesla slipstream wheels is going for $900 on eBay, and the Michelin Primacy MXM4 245/45R19 is down to $201 at TireRack. Together, you could outfit yourself with an all-season set of 19" wheels and tires for $1700. This would also be a good set to take a road trip on, as the Primacy's will use 10% less energy than the 21"s.

 

[Chaserr]

I have seen people use BMW steelies for winter tires. I was looking for a cheap set of them myself for this winter, I will post my results if I find a decent set that fits blizzaks as they are my preferred dedicated snow tread.

 

[JohnnyG]

... but my main concern is the tire actually making it out of winter OK. ... I'm more concerned with the tires sitting there at freezing temps and having the compound break down and render the tire useless!

The colder temperature and lower relative humidity shouldn't breakdown the compound any faster. The rubber will be hard as a rock, which with the loss of grip, will scrub the tires quite a bit.

 

[JohnnyG]

So here is my climate data. This is why I was contemplating running summer tires year round. But I was unaware that 45 degrees might be the lower limit on them.

View attachment 250650

The good news is that your average stays above 45, so the roads should stay above 45. I would be most concerned with Dec, Jan, Feb. If you aren't out driving in the middle of the night when the temps drop into the 30's, you might be okay. Just be aware of the much reduced traction. This is absolutely most important for stopping and emergency maneuvers.

 

[Gig103]

Thread necromancy!

It's now 2019 but I've moved from Phoenix to Seattle so it's my first foray in having to avoid summer tires. I'm due for tires and the timing is good with the weather changes.

I'm actually not staggered, 245/35/21 all around, but the only all-season I see are a brand I've never heard of, Nankang. Otherwise my options are winter tires which might be overkill for Seattle (cold and rainy not so much snow)? That last one is a question.

I guess I could get winters or the Nankang for now and then in the spring reevaluate. Another option might be to buy some 19" rims with all seasons?

Thoughts?

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Thread necromancy!

It's now 2019 but I've moved from Phoenix to Seattle so it's my first foray in having to avoid summer tires. I'm due for tires and the timing is good with the weather changes.

I'm actually not staggered, 245/35/21 all around, but the only all-season I see are a brand I've never heard of, Nankang. Otherwise my options are winter tires which might be overkill for Seattle (cold and rainy not so much snow)? That last one is a question.

I guess I could get winters or the Nankang for now and then in the spring reevaluate. Another option might be to buy some 19" rims with all seasons?

Thoughts?

Great word choice! Though Seattle rarely gets freezing weather, you should get all weather tires, or switch to winters. I’d recommend all weathers, which I’ve been using for 20+ years. If you bounce back and forth between eastern and western PNW as I do, you’re definitely a candidate. Swapping summer/winter tires twice a year is a pain that really only makes sense for “real” winter driving (MN, WI, ND, MT, WY, etc.), not the namby pamby stuff in western WA/OR. I suppose that weekly skiing jaunts to White/Stevens Pass might qualify, but in general when it really snows in Seattle/Portland, the roads are almost impassable due to the hills, heavy wet snow/ice, and massive traffic. You might as well stay home (call in sick or take vacation). I’m having the same problem, as I received free 21” Arachnids and summer tires from my Tesla referrals. It was fine since I needed new tires anyway and it was spring, but damn now I need to get another set of either winters or all weathers. First world problems.