48V model Y?

[Hank42]

I read that Elon was hot and heavy about updating the old 12V standard to 48V in the Model 3 prior to it's release, but got shot down because of the delay something like that would cause. I haven't heard anything about it since, but was wondering if he still wants to do it, and if it might end up in the Y.

 

[arghx7]

No.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Y will be based as heavily as possible on the existing Model 3. They are working on a new wiring system, but probably most of the internal components will be sourced from the 3

 

[Watts_Up]

There was also some ambitious talk of getting rid of the 12 V battery.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Imagine that many of the Model Y upgrades will trickle down into later Model 3 production..

 

[CyberShy]

48V? highly unlikely. Everything in a typical EV is either HV or 12V (and then there’s 5V, but I won’t get into that. There is no reason to use 48V anything. That’s for mild-hybrid gasmobiles.

Elon talked about eliminating the 12V battery. That means that he needs a really good HV-to-12DC converter that can switch from milliamperes to tens of amps without creating too much transient electrical noise.

A 12V battery is great for that. So are supercapacitors, btw.

I expect the wiring improvements and hopefully better production efficiency to give the Y a decent profit margin. Tesla needs to be profitable.

And no fancy new wiper-system, either.

 

[SSedan]

There has been talk of the legacy auto builders going 48volt for decades.

IMO they(legacy) have to make the jump first to get the parts catalog built, 48volt bulbs, relays, switches, accessory motors etc. Without that first you need to step the voltage down to 12 anyway.

 

[ewoodrick]

I certainly hope they stay with 12V. Too many things depend on it.

 

[Fiddler]

Instead of individual wires the MY 48V buss will require intelligent nodes that recognize their "name" or "address" on the buss to turn on the 12V device. Once the intelligent node has the ability to switch the device on and off, it can also Pulse Width Modulate, PWM, the 48V power to provide a 12V equivalent to the 12V device from the 48V buss.
This PWM technique is used on Tesla cars today for LED lamps as evidenced by video that shows the lamps flickering, ie modulating.

 

[Blu Angel]

@Hank42,

Tesla will revolutionize the electrical harness and wiring in the upcoming Tesla Y model!
(Not 100 % guaranteed to come to fruition but I bet Tesla trying real hard)

The orginal 2012 Tesla S has 3000 meters of wiring (3 kilometers)
The 2017 Tesla 3 has 1500 meters of wiring (1.5 kilometers)
The new 2020 Tesla Y will only have 100 meters of wiring!

This equals a 94% reduction of wiring fromthe Tesla 3
and probably 200 pounds of wiring (my wild guestimate)

Here's the link to the article from Electrek
Tesla reveals revolutionary new wiring architecture to help robots build upcoming cars like Model Y - Electrek

 

[lance]

Why does the Tesla even need a 12v lead acid battery? Wouldn't a smaller Lithion Ion battery be better?

 

[qdeathstar]

Instead of individual wires the MY 48V buss will require intelligent nodes that recognize their "name" or "address" on the buss to turn on the 12V device. Once the intelligent node has the ability to switch the device on and off, it can also Pulse Width Modulate, PWM, the 48V power to provide a 12V equivalent to the 12V device from the 48V buss.
This PWM technique is used on Tesla cars today for LED lamps as evidenced by video that shows the lamps flickering, ie modulating.

i don’t think this is accurate. Most micro controllers will be destroyed the instance you apply i high voltage to them...

 

[qdeathstar]

Why does the Tesla even need a 12v lead acid battery? Wouldn't a smaller Lithion Ion battery be better?

lead acid is more reliable and rugged....

 

[Fiddler]

... Wouldn't a smaller Lithion Ion battery be better?

No is the simple answer. Tesla engineer know batteries and L-ion cells don't work when cold ...

The better question is: How can Tesla eliminate the 12V battery? That's where the 48V buss and the Model Y fits in. Tesla has designed a system to eliminate the 12V battery with the 48V buss in the Model Y. Maybe the MY will have a capacitor that's charged from the traction battery.

 

[gilscales]

Maybe the MY will have a capacitor that's charged from the traction battery.

it may even be a Maxwell Ultra Capacitor

 

[Fiddler]

i don’t think this is accurate. Most micro controllers will be destroyed the instance you apply i high voltage to them...

"Most micro controllers" are powered by PWM power supplies. "Most micro controllers" even have PWM supplies on the chip to eliminate the +/-15V and other needed voltages so the controllers can run on a single supply voltage.

Just because you know how to destroy most micro controllers with high voltage, that doesn't mean that I don't know to design circuits properly. The devil is in the details. It can be done. I've done it.

 

[qdeathstar]

"Most micro controllers" are powered by PWM power supplies. "Most micro controllers" even have PWM supplies on the chip to eliminate the +/-15V and other needed voltages so the controllers can run on a single supply voltage.

Just because you know how to destroy most micro controllers with high voltage, that doesn't mean that I don't know to design circuits properly. The devil is in the details. It can be done. I've done it.

post a schematic and datasheet. Show me how the ubiquitous 8pin chip, pic, atmel, arm chip can be powered from 48v by chopping it up when they circuit boards they are attached to are designed for 12v operation. Your going to need dropper circuitry.

 

[Fiddler]

post a schematic and datasheet.

https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com...support/referencedesign/RD040-DGUIDE-01_E.pdf

 

[qdeathstar]

That is a dc-dc converter. It won’t make anything expecting 12v in work with 48v by simply pwm the 48v. There is a lot more there than pwm. Having a whole bunch of dc/dc converters at every location you would like 12v at introduce multiple points of failure and noise from all the switching.

 

[Jeff3820]

I'm hoping they go the Mr. Fusion route...