60 amp circuit breaker with 14-50?

[ChrisianZ]

I ultimately put in the 50 amp breaker with the Nema 14-50. I have the Wall Connector ordered and out for delivery (I can't believe it's ground FedEx). I can upgrade the breaker to 60 amps and then have the WC installed if I keep it. The electrician thought I should install it outside if the car will be there (my garage is full of "stuff") most of the time. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[eprosenx]

I ultimately put in the 50 amp breaker with the Nema 14-50. I have the Wall Connector ordered and out for delivery (I can't believe it's ground FedEx). I can upgrade the breaker to 60 amps and then have the WC installed if I keep it. The electrician thought I should install it outside if the car will be there (my garage is full of "stuff") most of the time. Thanks for all the advice.

What kind of wire did you run?

If it was 6awg copper NM cable (romex) then it is only rated for 55 amps. You can’t hook it to a wall connector and run the wall connector at 60 amps (48 amps continuous). You can only set it to 50 amps, 40 amps continuous. So there would be no point in a 60a breaker.

If you had 6awg in conduit it would be allowed for a 60a breaker and 48a continuous because it can be used at the 75c rating rather than the 60c rating.

 

[CapinWinky]

I'm going to resurrect this with a few ways to meet NEC with a 14-50 compatible receptacle and a wall charger, both on the same 60A circuit.

1. You need at minimum #6 gauge wire for hot and neutral and #8 wire for ground.
   • You can get the Non-Metallic 6/3 cable that has exactly this and run it inside the wall/ceiling without using conduit as this cable cannot be used in 1" conduit.
   • Alternatively, get standard THHN #6 in Black, White, and Red and #8 in Green and run it in 3/4" or 1" conduit (if you use bent corners, 3/4" is fine, if using pull 90 deg fittings for a DIY friendly install, use 1" and get non-threaded fittings if possible or fill the threads with a small piece of conduit to protect the wire when pulling)
2. There are 14-60 and 18-60 outlets that you can use directly on the 60A circuit and use an adapter to 14-50. This is no different than plugging a 15A device into a 20A outlet.
3. There are 14-50 shaped outlets rated for 60A. This seemed shady to me.
4. There are pre-made boxes with a 50A breaker and a 14-50 outlet for like $50 on Amazon (they're even rated for outdoor use, but you can put them inside if you want). Just land the 60A circuit on the line side of the box.

I have personally installed the 14-60 and created a pigtail cord with a 14-60 male and 14-50 female end. I like this solution because the plug ends (even the 14-50 end) and the 14-60 outlet are much higher quality than the big-box 14-50. This ended up costing quite a bit more than the big-box 14-50 because that thing is like $15 and the 14-60 and each end of the pig tail was around $50 a pop. Luckily, I had 18 inches of 100A cord available to me for free and it worked with the pigtail ends. Unlike the outlet itself, the plug end is rated for 5000 plug cycles, so you could really plug/unplug daily. Of course, I'll probably never use it because I have the Tesla charger on the other side of the wall, it's only for if I park in the garage. I made the 3-way splice on the two hots and ground with the Morris Products 97613 Black Insulated Multi-Cable Connector - Dual Entry 3 Ports 4 - 14.

 

[techlogik]

Like other say, don't use a 60a...stick with the 50a....but.....

Nobody is mentioning anything about GFCI, NEC, which most states have adopted as standard for EV charging, requires in our case a 50amp GFCI breaker in the box, even if installed in a garage. For protection. Every breaker in my home is GFCI, either at the breaker level in the panel, or at the outlet. Problem being, nobody has 50a GFCI breakers for CH type, Eaton for example, in stock anywhere. If you do find one, they are price gouging the heck out of people for it to the tune of $300-400 for a $5 breaker. With that said, my electrician, being lazy, and not able to get any 50a GFCI which are back-orded to the tune of 50+ for his customers right now, stuck a 45a regular breaker in and installed my outlet. What's the choice? No charging? Not really.

So....food for thought, really need a 50a GFCI breaker in the box to meet code likely and for everybody's safety. I really have no choice personally since availability is non-existent.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm going to resurrect this with a few ways to meet NEC with a 14-50 compatible receptacle and a wall charger, both on the same 60A circuit.

I am going to have to flag you for this, because you are about to tell people to violate electrical code.

You need at minimum #6 gauge wire for hot and neutral and #8 wire for ground.

• You can get the Non-Metallic 6/3 cable that has exactly this and run it inside the wall/ceiling without using conduit as this cable cannot be used in 1" conduit.

If you are about to tell people they can use this for a 60A circuit? No, that's a code violation. 6 gauge NM-B can't support 60A circuits.

Alternatively, get standard THHN #6 in Black, White, and Red and #8 in Green and run it in 3/4" or 1" conduit (if you use bent corners, 3/4" is fine, if using pull 90 deg fittings for a DIY friendly install, use 1" and get non-threaded fittings if possible or fill the threads with a small piece of conduit to protect the wire when pulling)

OK, you got this one right. 6 gauge THHN in conduit is rated high enough for 60A circuits.

There are 14-60 and 18-60 outlets that you can use directly on the 60A circuit and use an adapter to 14-50. This is no different than plugging a 15A device into a 20A outlet.

Ah, well yes, this is a different issue. This would be a valid install of a 14-60 outlet.

There are 14-50 shaped outlets rated for 60A. This seemed shady to me.

I'm not quite sure what that means, so yeah, shady.

There are pre-made boxes with a 50A breaker and a 14-50 outlet for like $50 on Amazon (they're even rated for outdoor use, but you can put them inside if you want). Just land the 60A circuit on the line side of the box.

No, you don't put a 60A breaker on that. Code is very specific, that the breaker must not be a rating any higher than the rating of the outlet. And I can't believe we are on a third page of this freaking thread with such a horrible premise.

I have personally installed the 14-60 and created a pigtail cord with a 14-60 male and 14-50 female end. I like this solution because the plug ends (even the 14-50 end) and the 14-60 outlet are much higher quality than the big-box 14-50. This ended up costing quite a bit more than the big-box 14-50 because that thing is like $15 and the 14-60 and each end of the pig tail was around $50 a pop. Luckily, I had 18 inches of 100A cord available to me for free and it worked with the pigtail ends. Unlike the outlet itself, the plug end is rated for 5000 plug cycles, so you could really plug/unplug daily. Of course, I'll probably never use it because I have the Tesla charger on the other side of the wall, it's only for if I park in the garage. I made the 3-way splice on the two hots and ground with the Morris Products 97613 Black Insulated Multi-Cable Connector - Dual Entry 3 Ports 4 - 14.

OK, consider my disagree marking to not apply to this paragraph, because this is about how to make use of a properly installed 14-60 outlet, which is a separate topic, and totally fine.

Nobody is mentioning anything about GFCI, NEC, which most states have adopted as standard for EV charging, requires in our case a 50amp GFCI breaker in the box, even if installed in a garage. For protection. Every breaker in my home is GFCI, either at the breaker level in the panel, or at the outlet. Problem being, nobody has 50a GFCI breakers for CH type, Eaton for example, in stock anywhere. If you do find one, they are price gouging the heck out of people for it to the tune of $300-400 for a $5 breaker. With that said, my electrician, being lazy, and not able to get any 50a GFCI which are back-orded to the tune of 50+ for his customers right now, stuck a 45a regular breaker in and installed my outlet.

Yes, I remember you telling about this in another thread. That's some rough supply and demand problem.

What's the choice? No charging? Not really.

Of course not. The choice is to use a hard wired wall connector instead--they don't require the GFCI breakers. If you're already facing the prospect of $300+ to be able to use an outlet, then it is getting about to cost parity to just switch to the hardwired option for about the same price to use the much cheaper breaker.