Advice request: Solar Roof or regular new roof + solar?

[Carl_Drogo]

I need a new roof and would like to add solar, but can’t decide which way to go.

I have an updated contract from Tesla with the new pricing for a Solar Glass Roof + 1 Powerwall for an estimated $48,000 after tax credits.

I also got quotes for some SunPower panels and a new composite roof, which would also be about $48,000, after tax credit, for the cheapest shingles (though they don’t look too bad) plus solar / install. Obviously it would cost more if I want some slightly higher quality shingles. And even more if I put all the panels on the back side of the house where there’s less sunlight (so I would need more panels). So the whole thing would be $48,000 to $60,000, depending on panel locations and shingle quality, with no battery.

Tesla seems like the way to go on paper. It comes with a battery (the other option doesn’t) and seems to be a better quality roof. But I read horror stories of installations and service, and I would be locked into Tesla for all of it - not a problem per se, but potentially a problem if issues arise and I can’t get a hold of anyone. And it’s kind of an unproven technology (e.g., efficiency degradation over the years). Also a black roof wouldn’t be my first choice, but would probably be fine.

Am I overthinking these installation horror stories? Are most people actually happy with the process and maybe these stories are just overblown like a lot of the FUD around Tesla? While I think a lot of the bad press Tesla gets is way overblown, my sense is that the solar roof installation problems are based more on reality. So I’m just a bit nervous to go with the Tesla roof.

I’m in Northen California (PG&E) for whatever it’s worth. Both systems would be about 10KW. Anyway, I’d love to hear some opinions. Thanks very much.

 

[WaitingForRoof]

$48,000 for 10 kW Solar Roof with a Powerwall? Is your roof less than 1000 sq ft? That would be similar to last year's pricing model, which I would be shocked if they honored.. it.

 

[Carl_Drogo]

That’s after estimated tax credits. The actual price is about $58K, if I recall correctly. But the other SunPower option is similarly higher before tax credits.

Including the garage, my house is only about 1900 square feet (so maybe 2300 sq ft of roof), single story, and relatively simple roof.

my original price from Tesla was about $42K (after est. tax credits) before they repriced everything recently. So it did go up. But not nearly as much as other people’s.

in any case, are these contracts from Tesla essentially just estimates? I know they aren’t responsible if I find out there’s dry rot or something like that. But can they simply just raise the price during installation at their whim?

 

[WaitingForRoof]

That is a pretty reasonable price. Mine was 2700 sq ft roof single story house, 8.2 kW system for $58k by itself (no PW or tax credits), then raised to $73k before I cancelled

Hope all goes well, I would keep second options just in case though..

in any case, are these contracts from Tesla essentially just estimates? I know they aren’t responsible if I find out there’s dry rot or something like that. But can they simply just raise the price during installation at their whim?

Yes, there is a thread with some cancelled right before their installation date for not accepting new pricing terms.

 

[jimm01]

I need a new roof and would like to add solar, but can’t decide which way to go.

I have an updated contract from Tesla with the new pricing for a Solar Glass Roof + 1 Powerwall for an estimated $48,000 after tax credits.

I also got quotes for some SunPower panels and a new composite roof, which would also be about $48,000, after tax credit, for the cheapest shingles (though they don’t look too bad) plus solar / install. Obviously it would cost more if I want some slightly higher quality shingles. And even more if I put all the panels on the back side of the house where there’s less sunlight (so I would need more panels). So the whole thing would be $48,000 to $60,000, depending on panel locations and shingle quality, with no battery.

Tesla seems like the way to go on paper. It comes with a battery (the other option doesn’t) and seems to be a better quality roof. But I read horror stories of installations and service, and I would be locked into Tesla for all of it - not a problem per se, but potentially a problem if issues arise and I can’t get a hold of anyone. And it’s kind of an unproven technology (e.g., efficiency degradation over the years). Also a black roof wouldn’t be my first choice, but would probably be fine.

Am I overthinking these installation horror stories? Are most people actually happy with the process and maybe these stories are just overblown like a lot of the FUD around Tesla? While I think a lot of the bad press Tesla gets is way overblown, my sense is that the solar roof installation problems are based more on reality. So I’m just a bit nervous to go with the Tesla roof.

I’m in Northen California (PG&E) for whatever it’s worth. Both systems would be about 10KW. Anyway, I’d love to hear some opinions. Thanks very much.

After install check your system performance—my roof is underperforming by 20%. Tesla refuses to even determine why let alone fix it. Since Tesla is aware of the possible safety issues that could be attributed to underperformance my guess is they know it’s a design issue. Most likely Tesla uses a model to determine how many and where to install the active tiles based on your homes location and orientation, and your roofs pitch and dimensions. Given the results I have experienced model verification is questionable; however, I think I can honestly say model validation is unacceptable.

Tesla has poor to nonexistent local after-sales customer service.

 

[wjgjr]

I know there are a lot of strong opinions about the solar roof, particularly with the price increase Tesla pulled. I think you have identified most of the issues involved, and, in the end, the decision will be up to your preferences.

As a solar roof owner and having been on these forums, I will say that - though I know there are exceptions, as @jimm01 has unfortunately experienced - it seems like the number of reported problems with the actual roof install has been very low. In general, if you can get that far in your project, the teams doing the installs have been very professional and good to work with. Whether that is changing with everything else going on, I cannot say.

In our case, now 14 months out from the install (though only 9.5 months since PTO), our system has performed completely as expected, and we have had no problems with the roof leaking. Since PTO, we have not turned our system off, and have had no issues with any system components. At the moment, we are trending towards exceeding Tesla's estimated production by 3%. Of course, the system is still relatively new given the 25-year warranty on the roof, so it is still an open question as to long-term performance.

I am very pleased with the look of the product as well as the performance, and for the pricing at the time, I think it was completely worth it. But, a lot has changed in the two or so years since we first placed a deposit with Tesla for the roof.

 

[jimm01]

I know there are a lot of strong opinions about the solar roof, particularly with the price increase Tesla pulled. I think you have identified most of the issues involved, and, in the end, the decision will be up to your preferences.

As a solar roof owner and having been on these forums, I will say that - though I know there are exceptions, as @jimm01 has unfortunately experienced - it seems like the number of reported problems with the actual roof install has been very low. In general, if you can get that far in your project, the teams doing the installs have been very professional and good to work with. Whether that is changing with everything else going on, I cannot say.

In our case, now 14 months out from the install (though only 9.5 months since PTO), our system has performed completely as expected, and we have had no problems with the roof leaking. Since PTO, we have not turned our system off, and have had no issues with any system components. At the moment, we are trending towards exceeding Tesla's estimated production by 3%. Of course, the system is still relatively new given the 25-year warranty on the roof, so it is still an open question as to long-term performance.

I am very pleased with the look of the product as well as the performance, and for the pricing at the time, I think it was completely worth it. But, a lot has changed in the two or so years since we first placed a deposit with Tesla for the roof.

I can attest to the products look and potential durability. In fact, aesthetically it mates well with my house. Moreover, my wife likes it (if not that would have been a deal breaker). I said all along I believe the product is viable—I just think Tesla got way over their skis on this. In fact, an hour ago I spoke to a local installer, he thinks it was the price of lumber that forced Tesla to increase pricing. My opinion is Tesla was willing to take on some lost leaders but then the cost of sheathing went through roof (no pun intended).

 

[cobra]

Well, that's a little odd, given that a base install wouldn't need lumber/sheathing? (Solar roof, of course.)

 

[jimm01]

Well, that's a little odd, given that a base install wouldn't need lumber/sheathing? (Solar roof, of course.)

It sounded like sheathing was required on more then a few jobs. The sheathing is replaced not only if it was rotten, which may require rafter repair, (Dutchman), but if it’s wavy. He even said there were some complaints due to depressions.

 

[Carl_Drogo]

Piggybacking on my own thread: does anyone know if it's possible to mount something on the Solar Roof? I currently have a retractable awning that is bolted to my old roof (I can't remember how they did it without causing a leak). I'm just wondering how something like that would be re-mounted onto the Tesla tiles / shingles or if I would just have to get rid of it.

 

[jimm01]

Piggybacking on my own thread: does anyone know if it's possible to mount something on the Solar Roof? I currently have a retractable awning that is bolted to my old roof (I can't remember how they did it without causing a leak). I'm just wondering how something like that would be re-mounted onto the Tesla tiles / shingles or if I would just have to get rid of it.

I don't think so, not through the glass tiles. However, they can intermix metal flashing.

 

[wjgjr]

Piggybacking on my own thread: does anyone know if it's possible to mount something on the Solar Roof? I currently have a retractable awning that is bolted to my old roof (I can't remember how they did it without causing a leak). I'm just wondering how something like that would be re-mounted onto the Tesla tiles / shingles or if I would just have to get rid of it.

My guess is you would need to get rid of it - at the very least, I expect it would need to be removed for the install to occur, and then you would need to figure a way to re-mount it. With Tesla moving to metal tiles for the inactive ones, I would guess it is at least possible you could drill through those tiles to secure something to the roof. But I would assume it voids the warranty and I would say is not a good idea.

We had to have out gutters replaced because our old gutters had guards attached on the roof side, and that was considered incompatible with the solar roof. The replacement gutters have a different guard system that is secured to the gutter itself.

 

[jboy210]

I need a new roof and would like to add solar, but can’t decide which way to go.

I have an updated contract from Tesla with the new pricing for a Solar Glass Roof + 1 Powerwall for an estimated $48,000 after tax credits.

I also got quotes for some SunPower panels and a new composite roof, which would also be about $48,000, after tax credit, for the cheapest shingles (though they don’t look too bad) plus solar / install. Obviously it would cost more if I want some slightly higher quality shingles. And even more if I put all the panels on the back side of the house where there’s less sunlight (so I would need more panels). So the whole thing would be $48,000 to $60,000, depending on panel locations and shingle quality, with no battery.

Tesla seems like the way to go on paper. It comes with a battery (the other option doesn’t) and seems to be a better quality roof. But I read horror stories of installations and service, and I would be locked into Tesla for all of it - not a problem per se, but potentially a problem if issues arise and I can’t get a hold of anyone. And it’s kind of an unproven technology (e.g., efficiency degradation over the years). Also a black roof wouldn’t be my first choice, but would probably be fine.

Am I overthinking these installation horror stories? Are most people actually happy with the process and maybe these stories are just overblown like a lot of the FUD around Tesla? While I think a lot of the bad press Tesla gets is way overblown, my sense is that the solar roof installation problems are based more on reality. So I’m just a bit nervous to go with the Tesla roof.

I’m in Northen California (PG&E) for whatever it’s worth. Both systems would be about 10KW. Anyway, I’d love to hear some opinions. Thanks very much.

We had to make a similar choice back in Oct 2019. In our case, it was between the SolarRoof and a tile roof plus solar. We choose the SolarRoof and have been happy we did. There were several delays and a lack of communication prior to installation, but the installation people were great, and we are happy with the results. I documented the installation process here. Given that the install happened in March 2020 just as the Bay Area locked down I don't think it could have gone any better.

Regarding being locked into Tesla, that may be a positive. We originally were going to have the tile roof + solar installed by PetersenDean. But about midway through the process, they started getting unresponsive. This is was part of the reason we went with Tesla. Then in Spring 2020, PetersenDean filed for bankruptcy. Had we went with PetersenDean, this would have been the 3rd roofing company that put a roof on my house to do this. At least with Tesla, I think they will be around in some form a little longer these roofing companies.

 

[jboy210]

I can attest to the products look and potential durability. In fact, aesthetically it mates well with my house. Moreover, my wife likes it (if not that would have been a deal breaker). I said all along I believe the product is viable—I just think Tesla got way over their skis on this. In fact, an hour ago I spoke to a local installer, he thinks it was the price of lumber that forced Tesla to increase pricing. My opinion is Tesla was willing to take on some lost leaders but then the cost of sheathing went through roof (no pun intended).

Lumber is up over 300% in the last 20 months. Near my brother's home, new home prices are now a range, not fixed, because of the price of lumber and related building materials. And the range is up to $50,000 wide.

 

[h2ofun]

Lumber is up over 300% in the last 20 months. Near my brother's home, new home prices are now a range, not fixed, because of the price of lumber and related building materials. And the range is up to $50,000 wide.

BUT, BUT, I signed a contract. My contractor has paused projects with homeowners since he told them he had to raise the price or not do the project since he could not do something and lose money. I am now 4 months into trying to get some new garage doors, and been told it will be many months to go. With the rise in material costs, I am just waiting to hear the cost is going to go up a lot. And if they TRY this, I guess I need to file a law suit saying they are trying to screw me.

 

[jimm01]

BUT, BUT, I signed a contract. My contractor has paused projects with homeowners since he told them he had to raise the price or not do the project since he could not do something and lose money. I am now 4 months into trying to get some new garage doors, and been told it will be many months to go. With the rise in material costs, I am just waiting to hear the cost is going to go up a lot. And if they TRY this, I guess I need to file a law suit saying they are trying to screw me.

By claiming force majeure?

 

[wjgjr]

BUT, BUT, I signed a contract. My contractor has paused projects with homeowners since he told them he had to raise the price or not do the project since he could not do something and lose money. I am now 4 months into trying to get some new garage doors, and been told it will be many months to go. With the rise in material costs, I am just waiting to hear the cost is going to go up a lot. And if they TRY this, I guess I need to file a law suit saying they are trying to screw me.

There is a clear difference between a signed contract with a fixed price and either planned work or a contract with a contingency for changes in the price of materials. If you signed a fixed-priced contract for a garage door, you have every right to expect it to be installed at the agreed-upon price - it was the responsibility of the installer to secure the materials or otherwise hedge against increasing costs.

By claiming force majeure?

Since there is no specific force majeure clause in the contract, that option may depend on the exact rules of the state, but from what I have seen it seems like it would be hard for Tesla to assert this given that their installs have not become impossible - just more expensive (and sometimes potentially slower.)

-----

An interesting article about this issue, which, not surprisingly has come up a bunch in construction: Do Recent Materials Price Increases Threaten Your Bottom Line? - Law Firm Last & Faoro Attorneys San Mateo, California

 

[jimm01]

There is a clear difference between a signed contract with a fixed price and either planned work or a contract with a contingency for changes in the price of materials. If you signed a fixed-priced contract for a garage door, you have every right to expect it to be installed at the agreed-upon price - it was the responsibility of the installer to secure the materials or otherwise hedge against increasing costs.


Since there is no specific force majeure clause in the contract, that option may depend on the exact rules of the state, but from what I have seen it seems like it would be hard for Tesla to assert this given that their installs have not become impossible - just more expensive (and sometimes potentially slower.)

-----

An interesting article about this issue, which, not surprisingly has come up a bunch in construction: Do Recent Materials Price Increases Threaten Your Bottom Line? - Law Firm Last & Faoro Attorneys San Mateo, California

Not a lawyer, no nothing about tort litigation, what's the claim, fraud?

 

[wjgjr]

Lumber is up over 300% in the last 20 months. Near my brother's home, new home prices are now a range, not fixed, because of the price of lumber and related building materials. And the range is up to $50,000 wide.

Some of the increases are definitely huge, though I think the point above about lumber not being a big part of the solar roof install is valid. However, the other materials costs are I am sure also up.

But, I think that for the solar roof, the biggest issue really is labor. Having personally seen how labor-intensive it is and seeing that Tesla is now explicitly itemizing labor and charging more for complex roofs tells me that was the big problem for them in the original pricing. No doubt materials costs exacerbated the pain on some of their under-priced contracts, but I feel like labor costs are the real driver.

 

[jboy210]

BUT, BUT, I signed a contract. My contractor has paused projects with homeowners since he told them he had to raise the price or not do the project since he could not do something and lose money. I am now 4 months into trying to get some new garage doors, and been told it will be many months to go. With the rise in material costs, I am just waiting to hear the cost is going to go up a lot. And if they TRY this, I guess I need to file a law suit saying they are trying to screw me.

Yep. My neighbor had a signed contract for his new roof (not with Tesla) and solar. Last Fall when they were about to start they came to him and said their costs for lumber for the roof had gone up by $6,000, and they were willing to eat $2,000, but he needed to give them the $4,000 extra for the cost of the sheeting (he had wood singles). They said he could get someone else if wanted. My neighbor checked into it and verified they were giving him a deal so he went ahead.

Covid and Millenials getting to the age where they want to buy a house and get out of rentals have impact things in weird ways. We just went through the home buying process in Texas and we were seeing offers shoot from "only" $60,000 over asking to $120,000 over asking and all cash.