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Another reason why Tesla is miles off full self driving

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Was driving towards a roadworks the other day on a wide country road. Only 1 lane open, the others being repaved etc. To prevent cars, which have to share the same single lane from both directions crashing head on, they use mobile stopsigns that stand on the tarmac against the curb. The stoplichts alternate and let one side per turn through.

My car was on AP driving towards the stopsign (of which about 40cm stands on the street incl. the light-assembly) and it saw the sign‘s lights itself but did not see the wider batterybox and controller housing directly underneath the light-assembly. Had I not intervened, the car would have driven straight into the battery and controller housing. It did not beeb, made no attempt to steer clear. No reaction at all. It would have rammed the whole thing just like that.

Screenshot 2020-08-30 at 12.30.25.png


In my case, the stoplicht was a bit more to the left, really on the asphalt, flush against the high curb and totally in the path of cars if they would keep driving straight ahead. In my situation, cars needed to swerve to the left a bit to avoid hitting it. AP did nothing. Kept on chugging along as if it wasn't there. And that's my gripe. Even if the car does not understand what that "thing below the stoplight" is, the radar should have picked it up, understand the collision-course and steer clear of it. But it did not.

AP currently is as stupid as a second coat of paint. It thinks all kinds of objects are garbage-cans, even other cars sometimes (which can be funny, I admit). It sometimes thinks vehicles two lanes to the right are in the adjacent right lane even though there is an empty lane in between but the vehicle‘s graphical representation bounces around both lanes like it is drunk.

It also regularly brakes for no reason at all, sometimes even doing full emergency braking just for a second before it realises that there was absolutely no reason for it and continues normally (and yes I've had my camera's re-aligned, calibrated etc. etc. but it still does it randomly). Hell, my daughter drives better than that...

"Almost ready for self-driving" my ass!
 
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Was driving towards a roadworks the other day on a wide country road. Only 1 lane open, the others being repaved etc. To prevent cars, which have to share the same single lane from both directions crashing head on, they use mobile stopsigns that stand on the tarmac against the curb. The stoplichts alternate and let one side per turn through.

My car was on AP driving towards the stopsign (of which about 40cm stands on the street incl. the light-assembly) and it saw the sign‘s lights itself but did not see the wider batterybox and controller housing directly underneath the light-assembly. Had I not intervened, the car would have driven straight into the battery and controller housing. It did not beeb, made no attempt to steer clear. No reaction at all. It would have rammed the whole thing just like that.

View attachment 582339

In my case, the stoplicht was a bit more to the left, really on the asphalt, flush against the high curb and totally in the path of cars if they would keep driving straight ahead. In my situation, cars needed to swerve to the left a bit to avoid hitting it. AP did nothing. Kept on chugging along as if it wasn't there. And that's my gripe. Even if the car does not understand what that "thing below the stoplight" is, the radar should have picked it up, understand the collision-course and steer clear of it. But it did not.

AP currently is as stupid as a second coat of paint. It thinks all kinds of objects are garbage-cans, even other cars sometimes (which can be funny, I admit). It sometimes thinks vehicles two lanes to the right are in the adjacent right lane even though there is an empty lane in between but the vehicle‘s graphical representation bounces around both lanes like it is drunk.

It also regularly brakes for no reason at all, sometimes even doing full emergency braking just for a second before it realises that there was absolutely no reason for it and continues normally (and yes I've had my camera's re-aligned, calibrated etc. etc. but it still does it randomly). Hell, my daughter drives better than that...

"Almost ready for self-driving" my ass!

I don't expect much from the next major update either, but the current software version does not tell you what future versions will do.
 
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I don't expect much from the next major update either, but the current software version does not tell you what future versions will do.

Self driving isn't the sort of problem where software goes from "works like crap" to "works flawlessly" in a single version update. It will be a long march of updates, with each one adding incrementally less than the prior update. So there is something you can glean from the current state - and that is that we are a long way from full level 5 self driving, and it's going to take a lot of updates to get there.
 
Self driving isn't the sort of problem where software goes from "works like crap" to "works flawlessly" in a single version update.

This is only true if they are pushing out their latest version, which we know is not true. Elon stated the next release is a significant re-write, and that he can drive to work with virtually no interventions.

Keep in mind that Tesla is using the installed base of cars to gather real-world data and help train the AI. Tesla mostly updates the software to further that process, or to achieve significant milestones, or for critical fixes.
 
Keep in mind that Tesla is using the installed base of cars to gather real-world data and help train the AI. Tesla mostly updates the software to further that process, or to achieve significant milestones, or for critical fixes.

Yeah but what bothers me is what I wrote here: "Even if the car does not understand what that "thing below the stoplight" is, the radar should have picked it up, understand the collision-course and steer clear of it"
This functionality should have been there from day one. But apparently it still isn't. I do not expect the car to be able to identity every object on the planet and it does not need to. If a "thing" is in your way, you either stop or avoid it and not drive straight into it.
 
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Yeah but what bothers me is what I wrote here: "Even if the car does not understand what that "thing below the stoplight" is, the radar should have picked it up, understand the collision-course and steer clear of it"
This functionality should have been there from day one. But apparently it still isn't. I do not expect the car to be able to identity every object on the planet and it does not need to. If a "thing" is in your way, you either stop or avoid it and not drive straight into it.

Designing radar such that it detects non-moving things is difficult, especially narrow and curved. It does some kind of job at this, but its so unreliable that the vision is expected to be the ultimate rescue eventually.
 
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Designing radar such that it detects non-moving things is difficult, especially narrow and curved. It does some kind of job at this, but its so unreliable that the vision is expected to be the ultimate rescue eventually.

That strikes me as a BIG issue. I have been sent hurtling towards a delivery truck unloading on a dual carriageway, directly ahead of my car and the car really didn't even flinch. That is a big elephant in the room as far as I am concerned, especially without any help from lidar.
 
As a driver of a 2018 Model X for over 2 years, it’s the best and most amazing car I’ve ever driven in my 53+ years. Comfortable, quiet, amazing performance and great for the environment and everyone else.

Here are my recommendations for a new owner:
  1. Download, study and learn everything about your Tesla as if your life depended on it — because it does! Test yourself in order to ensure you know your car inside and out.
  2. Learn and try out Voice commands. Because Tesla places almost ALL functions in their touchscreen, it can be very dangerous to take your focus away from driving even for a second or two. Especially learn the functions of the turn signal stalk and scroll wheels on the steering wheel. Know the following:
    1. Windshield wipers can be activated for a quick swipe by pressing the button on the end of the turn signal. This also calls up the wiper controls sub-screen so that you can set speed, etc. Enable the Auto-wiper feature. Unlike other auto mfgrs, Tesla uses its camera to determine when and how fast to wipe. Experience shows that this can be inconsistent, so remember that turn signal button in an emergency.
    2. If you MUST take your eyes away from driving to use the touchscreen, enable autopilot so the car steers itself and maintains a safe speed while you use the screen.
  3. My Autopilot observations: DO NOT RELY ON AUTOPILOT TO PREVENT AN ACCIDENT!!! My and others’ experience has shown that you must not - cannot, take your attention away from driving for more than a few seconds. Yes, it may be true that drivers using autopilot are around ten times less likely to be involved in an accident, but it is FAR from perfect. Below are important observations as of Aug 2020:
    1. Suppose you are driving on the highway at 70 mph and see that traffic 1/2 mile ahead has come to a stop. Autopilot cameras only see ahead about 4-5 car lengths. If you do not exit autopilot (or quickly reduce the set speed), you will definitely crash as it will not be able to brake in time.
    2. Again, on the highway at high speed, you observe the car(s) ahead of you in your lane suddenly move over one lane to avoid an accident. Autopilot WILL NOT react to avoid stopped vehicles or debris. You must override autopilot and take control yourself.
    3. On the highway, driving in the rightmost lane, an on-ramp causes the right hand lane marker to disappear. Autopilot currently primarily uses this right hand lane marker, and because autopilot attempts to center itself within the middle of the lane, it will drift right, making you appear to be an idiot who doesn’t know how to drive. This and the next point are perhaps the most annoying issues with autopilot.
    4. In the same scenario as above where you are approaching an on-ramp but with a car beginning to merge, even though maintaining your speed would obviously result in no issues with the merging car, autopilot is unable (currently) to calculate the differences in speed, and will brake to allow the merging car to enter in front of you. So for these reasons, it is recommended that you either drive in one of the left lanes or do not enable autopilot if you wish to remain in the rightmost lane.
    5. Autopilot is also known for “phantom braking“. This is where it appears to brake, often very hard, with the danger that you could be rear-ended. This seems to most often occur near overpasses and when intermittent shadows cover the road.
    6. Autopilot does NOT recognize bicyclists to allow 3’ min spacing, so you must override.
    7. During heavy rain and bright sun, autopilot is likely to disengage.
    8. If your mode of driving is to be smooth such that passengers are practically unaware of the car accelerating, decelerating, braking, turning, then you’ll dislike/hate autopilot’s abrupt/scary movements.
    9. Conclusion: Be ready at any time to take control from autopilot. While many Tesla owners use it heavily, I personally tend to use it only in the conditions where I know it works best. Tesla is currently rewriting autopilot using advanced artificial intelligence to take advantage of its latest computers, so there is hope that the promised “Full Self-driving” functionality may actually be reached in 2021. Until that is proven, remain vigilant!
 
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