Another thread on charging on salvage cars

[BritneySpears]

you could get the ingenext bonus model. There is battery pack heating. It brings the battery up to 30C. You also get alot of extra features. My favorite is the auto door. My door unlocks and pops open when I walk up to my car.

BONUS Module - For Tesla Model 3/Y

The bonus add a lot of cool features to your Tesla Model 3 and Tesla Model Y. The Features Heated rear seat Ambient lights Regen control Automatic driver door opening Automatic frunk and trunk opening with proximity sensors Drift mode Heated steering wheel (If your car is compatible.

ingenext.ca

Yeah but that's accepting the harm done to me by Tesla and harming myself even further.

Moderator note; The first 14 posts of this thread were moved from a different thread.

 

[FalconFour]

Yeah but that's accepting the harm done to me by Tesla and harming myself even further.

Hold up, hold up. Salvage car, yeah? Should only disable the ability to use Supercharging, but it shouldn't stop you from viewing SCs and navigating to one, no? Doing so, that ought to trigger the battery conditioning. Even without that, there's not a hell of a lot of impact... when you start any form of DC charging (CdM, CCS, SC), the heating kicks on, same way as during preconditioning - and it usually takes 20-30 minutes for a single-motor to reach temp. Dual, maybe half that, but still, large quantities of minutes. Active charging cuts that down even further (over 150kW, and it's heating fairly quickly to where it won't need active heating anymore).

Profile has you in the same location as me Down for a lunch some time, maybe I could poke your car and find ways to optimize the experience (and for me: learn a lot about what Tesla does to salvage cars)?

 

[BritneySpears]

Hold up, hold up. Salvage car, yeah? Should only disable the ability to use Supercharging, but it shouldn't stop you from viewing SCs and navigating to one, no? Doing so, that ought to trigger the battery conditioning. Even without that, there's not a hell of a lot of impact... when you start any form of DC charging (CdM, CCS, SC), the heating kicks on, same way as during preconditioning - and it usually takes 20-30 minutes for a single-motor to reach temp. Dual, maybe half that, but still, large quantities of minutes. Active charging cuts that down even further (over 150kW, and it's heating fairly quickly to where it won't need active heating anymore).

Profile has you in the same location as me Down for a lunch some time, maybe I could poke your car and find ways to optimize the experience (and for me: learn a lot about what Tesla does to salvage cars)?

No, Tesla has removed the trip planner menu as well as being able to precondition when navigating to a sc, although sc doesn’t work. Yes, salvaged title.
1. Tesla illegally removed sc by removing that feature from my car ota, to a car they don’t own, to an owner they did not ask permission from.
2 Tesla illegally limited 3rd party dc charging to 50kw (pending).
3. Tesla illegally used public dmv information to use against an owner and cause owner harm.
4. Tesla illegally removed trip planner from menu. It was mine, and they stole it, like all other features. They can own software all they want but they can’t remove things, limit my speed, etc…

Does anyone not get the gravity of what Tesla has done?

 

[TravelFree]

No, Tesla has removed the trip planner menu as well as being able to precondition when navigating to a sc, although sc doesn’t work. Yes, salvaged title.
1. Tesla illegally removed sc by removing that feature from my car ota, to a car they don’t own, to an owner they did not ask permission from.
2 Tesla illegally limited 3rd party dc charging to 50kw (pending).
3. Tesla illegally used public dmv information to use against an owner and cause owner harm.
4. Tesla illegally removed trip planner from menu. It was mine, and they stole it, like all other features. They can own software all they want but they can’t remove things, limit my speed, etc…

Does anyone not get the gravity of what Tesla has done?

You should contact an attorney rather than post your complaints here. All we can do is help to see if there is something you may not be doing right.
Tesla may be legally on the right side of the law to prevent you from using software without a license, but I'm certainly not able to define what the law is in CA.

All I understand is that if you purchase a Tesla from an authorized source they honor most of the software such as the free updates but some things are excluded. Like if you purchased a Tesla trade-in FSD is not included. What are the laws pertaining to salvage cars in CA? you'll need to hire a lawyer for some of your questions. He will determine if you have a legal case.

 

[FalconFour]

No, Tesla has removed the trip planner menu as well as being able to precondition when navigating to a sc, although sc doesn’t work. Yes, salvaged title.
1. Tesla illegally removed sc by removing that feature from my car ota, to a car they don’t own, to an owner they did not ask permission from.
2 Tesla illegally limited 3rd party dc charging to 50kw (pending).
3. Tesla illegally used public dmv information to use against an owner and cause owner harm.
4. Tesla illegally removed trip planner from menu. It was mine, and they stole it, like all other features. They can own software all they want but they can’t remove things, limit my speed, etc…

Does anyone not get the gravity of what Tesla has done?

They have a known policy on this. Somehow, their legal team cleared it, so your perspective of putting "illegally" in every statement is an awful ballsy (and almost absolutely incorrect) statement, compared to the actual foundation of a legal team that likely told Tesla to have that policy in the first place.

Tesla's policy of disabling Supercharging on salvage cars is utterly batsh*t stupid, senseless, makes no technical sense, or anything. But it is what they do with salvage cars. It's offensive, completely wrong, and I would fight Tesla on it -- on the merits of the policy itself, not that it's forum-armchair-poster "illegal".

But your #2 point is likely incorrect. You started charging at a high SOC%. Of course it's not going to go fast. Try again at 20% or less, and you'll take it back - I know.

It's a miracle CCS still works on a car with disabled Supercharging. You're quickly going to love it. (and I wish you'd be looking at this from the bright side of "holy crap I have access to quick charging again, wow!", not "everything Tesla does is illegaull!".

Guess that's a no on the lunch thing (honestly it is for me, anyway, given the response, lol)

 

[FalconFour]

Like if you purchased a Tesla trade-in FSD is not included.

Again, a mostly-myth that's believed in far more incorrect contexts than the correct ones. Some things they remove, but purchased FSD rolls with the car. Only under certain conditions (lease returns, low-balled auctions involving Tesla, etc), they'll strip it like the money-grubbing jerks they are very much shaping-up to be.

But broadly, no, they don't just remove FSD from any car that comes through a broad "trade-in". Only under specific conditions -- and you, the buyer, will know if it's present/not present by the listing (it may have come in with FSD, but it'd be listed without).

 

[BritneySpears]

They have a known policy on this. Somehow, their legal team cleared it, so your perspective of putting "illegally" in every statement is an awful ballsy (and almost absolutely incorrect) statement, compared to the actual foundation of a legal team that likely told Tesla to have that policy in the first place.

Tesla's policy of disabling Supercharging on salvage cars is utterly batsh*t stupid, senseless, makes no technical sense, or anything. But it is what they do with salvage cars. It's offensive, completely wrong, and I would fight Tesla on it -- on the merits of the policy itself, not that it's forum-armchair-poster "illegal".

But your #2 point is likely incorrect. You started charging at a high SOC%. Of course it's not going to go fast. Try again at 20% or less, and you'll take it back - I know.

It's a miracle CCS still works on a car with disabled Supercharging. You're quickly going to love it. (and I wish you'd be looking at this from the bright side of "holy crap I have access to quick charging again, wow!", not "everything Tesla does is illegaull!".

Guess that's a no on the lunch thing (honestly it is for me, anyway, given the response, lol)

Not disagreeing but Yes, I’m extrapolating their action to a future position. It’s an exaggeration . This is the inter web - anyone can say anything and it’s not ballsy or meek. It’s also not a court of law so nothing can be used against me. I don’t know that by default if you proclaim anything that it’s automatically legal. That seems to be one of those legal philosophy questions.

I agree I need to test more on the ccs1. Will report here.

Not sure about lunch and your motivation. PM me.

 

[BritneySpears]

You should contact an attorney rather than post your complaints here. All we can do is help to see if there is something you may not be doing right.
Tesla may be legally on the right side of the law to prevent you from using software without a license, but I'm certainly not able to define what the law is in CA.

All I understand is that if you purchase a Tesla from an authorized source they honor most of the software such as the free updates but some things are excluded. Like if you purchased a Tesla trade-in FSD is not included. What are the laws pertaining to salvage cars in CA? you'll need to hire a lawyer for some of your questions. He will determine if you have a legal case.

For now I’d like to complain and see what the response is. Maybe I can learn something. It’s just talk so…

I disagree with Tesla honoring or not honoring a sale. The are not involved. This was a private party sale. If a transaction takes place between 2 independent parties then Tesla is not involved. I believe there’s precedence of buying as is where is. I don’t see how legally Tesla can interject itself post transaction of which they were not party to search public dmv records to identify title of vehicles they don’t own and OTA send a signal to identified vehicles to change them and harm owners. I’m looking for articulation how that should be legal.

No entity should be allowed to change a product they don’t own but have access to without owners permission. Is there not precedence for that?

If tesla entangled themselves with the gate to sc built into vehicle software then that is their problem. They do not have my permission to get inside my car and change it. They may post a guard at their station though - that’s their business.

 

[MP3Mike]

I disagree with Tesla honoring or not honoring a sale. The are not involved. This was a private party sale. If a transaction takes place between 2 independent parties then Tesla is not involved. I believe there’s precedence of buying as is where is. I don’t see how legally Tesla can interject itself post transaction of which they were not party to search public dmv records to identify title of vehicles they don’t own and OTA send a signal to identified vehicles to change them and harm owners. I’m looking for articulation how that should be legal.

Well, you can look at it that Tesla has a policy that salvage vehicles get Supercharging turned off, and the original purchaser is bound by that policy. While the original owner owned the car it was declared totaled, and at that point has essentially agreed that Supercharging will be disabled. The enforcement of that policy/agreement was just delayed.

Another way to look at it is the same as the warranty. It has a condition that it is voided if the car is declared a total loss. The purchaser of the salvage car doesn't have Tesla involved, but it doesn't matter, the terms and conditions were applied from the original purchaser. You may be able to squeeze in some warranty repairs before Tesla figures out it is a salvage vehicle, but that doesn't prevent them from being able to stop future warranty repairs. (I have seen people with salvage vehicles get warranty repairs.) Same applies for Supercharging, it has a policy that it is disabled on a salvage vehicle, terms the original purchaser were bound by. They pass those terms on to the next owner.

 

[KJD]

No, Tesla has removed the trip planner menu as well as being able to precondition when navigating to a sc, although sc doesn’t work. Yes, salvaged title.
1. Tesla illegally removed sc by removing that feature from my car ota, to a car they don’t own, to an owner they did not ask permission from.
2 Tesla illegally limited 3rd party dc charging to 50kw (pending).
3. Tesla illegally used public dmv information to use against an owner and cause owner harm.
4. Tesla illegally removed trip planner from menu. It was mine, and they stole it, like all other features. They can own software all they want but they can’t remove things, limit my speed, etc…

Does anyone not get the gravity of what Tesla has done?

Yes if I had a car that Tesla removed functionality from I would be upset same as you.

However this is the CCS1 thread and I think your conversation would be more useful in one of the many salvage threads like the one below.

Salvage cars: Tesla permanently disabling SC from supercharger

Hi guys, just drawing your attention to this tweet from @wk057 "Tesla really doesn't want people with salvage cars using superchargers. Aside from legal threats in their docs, they're blocking it in more ways now. Seems even offline cars on semi-modern firmware can now have it perm disabled...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[BritneySpears]

Well, you can look at it that Tesla has a policy that salvage vehicles get Supercharging turned off, and the original purchaser is bound by that policy. While the original owner owned the car it was declared totaled, and at that point has essentially agreed that Supercharging will be disabled. The enforcement of that policy/agreement was just delayed.

Another way to look at it is the same as the warranty. It has a condition that it is voided if the car is declared a total loss. The purchaser of the salvage car doesn't have Tesla involved, but it doesn't matter, the terms and conditions were applied from the original purchaser. You may be able to squeeze in some warranty repairs before Tesla figures out it is a salvage vehicle, but that doesn't prevent them from being able to stop future warranty repairs. (I have seen people with salvage vehicles get warranty repairs.) Same applies for Supercharging, it has a policy that it is disabled on a salvage vehicle, terms the original purchaser were bound by. They pass those terms on to the next owner.

To your first point I’d say Tesla can deny any service including sc but they can’t touch your car. I’d also argue it’s same as FSD. It came with the car, was priced with that feature (private party),and Tesla can’t just deny it because of a title branding. At least they haven’t yet. So if the latter is true why isn’t the former?

To 2nd point I think the correlation isn’t strong. Taking your car to service and having them tel you they’re not gonna touch it because it’s salvage title is much different than not taking your car to service and having them touch it anyway, remotely without your permission.

 

[TravelFree]

To 2nd point I think the correlation isn’t strong. Taking your car to service and having them tel you they’re not gonna touch it because it’s salvage title is much different than not taking your car to service and having them touch it anyway, remotely without your permission.

Just curious- how did you set up a Tesla account and register your salvaged car for supercharging on a salvaged car VIN? Anyone who uses a SC has to have a Tesla account with the car listed. Something doesn't add up. I would think Tesla would flag your car a junked salvaged and not registered it.

I did a quick bit of searching and learned that you can register a junked car in CA with the state. However specifically to Tesla's I saw this:

"It will continue to be registered/titled as a salvaged vehicle for the remainder of its life. Vehicles declared a total loss are typically used for parts. A number of salvaged vehicles may be purchased at auction and made operable again; however, Tesla does not officially support these vehicles."

Please read this reference:

Tesla’s Official Salvage Policy

Tesla has a specific policy pertaining to salvaged vehicles that prospective buyers should keep in mind.

blog.onlyusedtesla.com

 

[TravelFree]

Again, a mostly-myth that's believed in far more incorrect contexts than the correct ones. Some things they remove, but purchased FSD rolls with the car. Only under certain conditions (lease returns, low-balled auctions involving Tesla, etc), they'll strip it like the money-grubbing jerks they are very much shaping-up to be.

But broadly, no, they don't just remove FSD from any car that comes through a broad "trade-in". Only under specific conditions -- and you, the buyer, will know if it's present/not present by the listing (it may have come in with FSD, but it'd be listed without).

OK, I did not mean that Tesla pulls FSD in all cases of a sale. They have said it remains with the car when is sold privately. But it is not myth that they pull FSD off on any trade-in that goes back through Tesla. Basically you and I agree on this. Sorry if I was not clear in my original post.

On Supercharging, that goes with the car as well as free supercharging from what I understand. I'm not sure if the policy on free SC for life gets pulled on trade-ins. On private sale, I know several people who bought used and they still get the free SC.

 

[MP3Mike]

To 2nd point I think the correlation isn’t strong. Taking your car to service and having them tel you they’re not gonna touch it because it’s salvage title is much different than not taking your car to service and having them touch it anyway, remotely without your permission.

Maybe they aren't reaching in to the car. Maybe they have programmed the car to reach out to Tesla servers to check the title status and update it. Such that it is your own car doing the bit flipping.

But really it doesn't matter, even if somehow someone won a court case saying that Tesla can't change the Supercharging bit in the car, they can still block it on the Supercharger side. So you still wouldn't be able to Supercharge.

 

[BritneySpears]

Just curious- how did you set up a Tesla account and register your salvaged car for supercharging on a salvaged car VIN? Anyone who uses a SC has to have a Tesla account with the car listed. Something doesn't add up. I would think Tesla would flag your car a junked salvaged and not registered it.

Tesla does not have any legal ability to register your car. That is done by the state DMV. If you mean tesla account then anyone can sell a car to another person, the new owner submits proof of ownership, you get a tesla account. Tesla does not have any legal authority to certify registration that was done by the state.

I did a quick bit of searching and learned that you can register a junked car in CA with the state. However specifically to Tesla's I saw this:

"It will continue to be registered/titled as a salvaged vehicle for the remainder of its life. Vehicles declared a total loss are typically used for parts. A number of salvaged vehicles may be purchased at auction and made operable again; however, Tesla does not officially support these vehicles."

Tesla can write what they want about "support" of vehicles. It means nothing in so far as registration or certification of the vehicle. Tesla does not have legal authority to certify a compliant or non-compliant individual car. The only certification any manuf can do is to the dot or emmissions control board (i forget the exact agencies) but essentially you can look at the VW diesel debacle in that they certified non-compliant cars. That was their only legal ability. What owners do with their cars once the manuf sells to them is no longer their business. Compliance certification of rebuilt salvaged certificate cars is done by the state and therein lies the conflict that Tesla has.

Please read this reference:

Tesla’s Official Salvage Policy

Tesla has a specific policy pertaining to salvaged vehicles that prospective buyers should keep in mind.

blog.onlyusedtesla.com

You point out

 

[BritneySpears]

Maybe they aren't reaching in to the car. Maybe they have programmed the car to reach out to Tesla servers to check the title status and update it. Such that it is your own car doing the bit flipping.

That's the same thing. That's like shutting off the car via gps if I drive it to Canada because they don't want, personally, for whatever reason, for their cars to go to Canada, regardless of who owns it. Nonetheless I don't believe that's the case as Tesla once emailed me the carfax stating my car is branded and that they no longer support it - and turned off SC. I think they manually scan their VINs. They are basically looking for cars to change.

But really it doesn't matter, even if somehow someone won a court case saying that Tesla can't change the Supercharging bit in the car, they can still block it on the Supercharger side. So you still wouldn't be able to Supercharge.

Any car manuf can deny service if you bring the car to them, they look up the vin, and then tell you they can't touch it. However, if the car has a maintenance contract that stays with the car, because that's in the contract, they have to honor it. They also have to honor recall service regardless of title branding. So I still maintain that SC is like FSD that it's a feature of the car, not a warranty/service feature done at the dealer.

 

[BritneySpears]

OK, I did not mean that Tesla pulls FSD in all cases of a sale. They have said it remains with the car when is sold privately. But it is not myth that they pull FSD off on any trade-in that goes back through Tesla. Basically you and I agree on this. Sorry if I was not clear in my original post.

On Supercharging, that goes with the car as well as free supercharging from what I understand. I'm not sure if the policy on free SC for life gets pulled on trade-ins. On private sale, I know several people who bought used and they still get the free SC.

Any manuf dealer can modify their cars at the dealer level and sell as is where is. Once the transaction completes everyone is done. Same goes for private party sales or dealers not associated with Tesla. Anything on the car stays with the car - purchased as is where is. That is my rhetorical argument.

 

[jjrandorin]

Just curious- how did you set up a Tesla account and register your salvaged car for supercharging on a salvaged car VIN? Anyone who uses a SC has to have a Tesla account with the car listed. Something doesn't add up. I would think Tesla would flag your car a junked salvaged and not registered it.

I did a quick bit of searching and learned that you can register a junked car in CA with the state. However specifically to Tesla's I saw this:

"It will continue to be registered/titled as a salvaged vehicle for the remainder of its life. Vehicles declared a total loss are typically used for parts. A number of salvaged vehicles may be purchased at auction and made operable again; however, Tesla does not officially support these vehicles."

Please read this reference:

Tesla’s Official Salvage Policy

Tesla has a specific policy pertaining to salvaged vehicles that prospective buyers should keep in mind.

blog.onlyusedtesla.com

The Op of this particular thread (looks like it was split off from somewhere else but I did not do that myself) already knows all this. They know all about teslas policy on this, etc etc.

I have no idea on the motivation other than "internet shaming" which is what I suspect it is, because if they were going to lawyer up over this topic they likely would have done so a while ago (this is not new for the OP).

Perhaps they will be the ones to take tesla to court over this? I dont know. What I do know though, is making a bunch of noise here is just noise, and I doubt anything said here is going to put any sort of pressure on tesla to do anything.

 

[BritneySpears]

The Op of this particular thread (looks like it was split off from somewhere else but I did not do that myself) already knows all this. They know all about teslas policy on this, etc etc.

It came from my posts on the CCS1 thread. I tried the CCS1 on a fairly high SOC MY, salvaged, and it charged well below 50kw so I became suspicious and reignited the salvage discussion. I need to test the CCS1 further, btw, and will report on the appropriate thread.

I have no idea on the motivation other than "internet shaming" which is what I suspect it is, because if they were going to lawyer up over this topic they likely would have done so a while ago (this is not new for the OP).

I don't know who you're referring to as internet shaming but complaining is a discussion and discussions can yield a more complete understanding. That's my motivation, at least.

Perhaps they will be the ones to take tesla to court over this? I dont know. What I do know though, is making a bunch of noise here is just noise, and I doubt anything said here is going to put any sort of pressure on tesla to do anything.

Well if you devolve this thread into noise then the entire internet is noise. Again, my motivation is not to get Tesla to send me flowers but to read new ideas. Enjoy the passion.

 

[jjrandorin]

I called it "noise" because none of this is new to you. You have been posting on the same topic here since Dec of 2020 (supercharging removal from salvage cars), in various threads, with the same talking points as this one.

Thats why I said you already know all this, its not new to you, you know teslas position on this and have your own (that its illegal). Even though you post repeatedly its illegal, I dont know if you have taken legal action yet but if so, you have not communicated it.

Thus, its the same talking points, repeated (repeatedly). You are welcome to do so, but some others may be trying to tell you stuff you already know.