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Any practical advantages of PUP red brembo brakes over standard brakes?
- Thread starter Quickturtle
- Start date
Only advantages would be better brake "feel," which is a subjective matter, and better heat management / fade resistance, which is only applicable when performing very hard braking back-to-back-to-back, i.e. on a race track.
Stopping distance is mostly a function of tires rather than brakes in modern cars. If you can activate ABS by stomping on the brake pedal as hard as you can, then you've reached the limit of the tires and bigger or better brakes won't help you stop any sooner.
Yes, the PS4S tires on the P3D will offer shorter stopping distances.
Stopping distance is mostly a function of tires rather than brakes in modern cars. If you can activate ABS by stomping on the brake pedal as hard as you can, then you've reached the limit of the tires and bigger or better brakes won't help you stop any sooner.
Yes, the PS4S tires on the P3D will offer shorter stopping distances.
Needsdecaf
Active Member
Depends on what your real life driving looks like!
Most braking improvements will come from the sticker rubber. However some of the increase from the LRAWD to the performance will be from the brakes. How much? Hard to guess, but maybe 15%? The real difference is in their ability to stand up to repeated stops on a track or in a hard canyon driving situation. Bigger calipers mean bigger pads, means longer time to heat. Bigger discs mean more thermal mass means longer time to heat.
But in a daily situation? I hardly use my friction brakes above 30 MPH so I'd doubt you'd ever see the difference.
Most braking improvements will come from the sticker rubber. However some of the increase from the LRAWD to the performance will be from the brakes. How much? Hard to guess, but maybe 15%? The real difference is in their ability to stand up to repeated stops on a track or in a hard canyon driving situation. Bigger calipers mean bigger pads, means longer time to heat. Bigger discs mean more thermal mass means longer time to heat.
But in a daily situation? I hardly use my friction brakes above 30 MPH so I'd doubt you'd ever see the difference.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
More like plus or minus 1%. Standard brakes have more than enough power to activate the ABS. I put PS4S on my AWD and measured the braking distance (VBOX) 60-0 at 105 feet FWIW. All the difference is the rubber. The PUP brakes are for track use.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
PUP brakes also have advantages for mountain driving, going fast on curving roads, or just being enthusiastic on a great back road.
They have greater fade resistance and provide additional control.
As far as any individual single braking event, they will usually not stop faster, but in enthusiastic use they have more capability.
They have greater fade resistance and provide additional control.
As far as any individual single braking event, they will usually not stop faster, but in enthusiastic use they have more capability.
While I don't necessarily disagree with your statements, if someone is experiencing brake fade on public mountain roads, they should go directly to jail; do not pass go; do not collect $200.
Again, OP asked about real-life driving...
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
In real life, casual driving, there are probably no user apparent benefits.
Only place I can come up with is driving down pikes peak. People ride their brakes all the way down and there is a spot, park way down, that they do a mandatory brake temperature check. If your brakes are too hot, you are required to stay there a while until they get cool enough to proceed. Of course, with Tesla regeneration, that should never be an issue, even with standard brakes.
ICE vehicles can easily overheat their brakes, driving the the Rocky Mountains. Riding stock brakes, with marginal capabilities, can fade or overheat their break fluids. Again, the stock brakes on the Model S are strong to begin with, and upgrades should not be needed.
The PUP is kind of like the performance version of the Model 3, or the Performance + Model S. They have upgraded suspensions, cooling and brakes for occasional higher performance romps.
Only place I can come up with is driving down pikes peak. People ride their brakes all the way down and there is a spot, park way down, that they do a mandatory brake temperature check. If your brakes are too hot, you are required to stay there a while until they get cool enough to proceed. Of course, with Tesla regeneration, that should never be an issue, even with standard brakes.
ICE vehicles can easily overheat their brakes, driving the the Rocky Mountains. Riding stock brakes, with marginal capabilities, can fade or overheat their break fluids. Again, the stock brakes on the Model S are strong to begin with, and upgrades should not be needed.
The PUP is kind of like the performance version of the Model 3, or the Performance + Model S. They have upgraded suspensions, cooling and brakes for occasional higher performance romps.
Here's a related question for the panel:
Will the red Brembo brakes fit inside the 19 inch wheels? Or are the 20s mandatory for fitment? I want the larger brakes just on principle - which may or may not actually result in real-world braking improvement, I know. But the 20 inch wheels/tires can be bone-shattering. The 19s are just a bit more comfortable to drive. And with decent summer tires, I think you can get close to the at-the-limits handling and grip that the 20s would give. It's all a trade-off.
But if the brakes don't fit, you must acquit. (Wait ...no.) Rather, if the brakes don't fit inside 19 inch wheels, then there's no sense in worrying about it.
Thoughts?
Will the red Brembo brakes fit inside the 19 inch wheels? Or are the 20s mandatory for fitment? I want the larger brakes just on principle - which may or may not actually result in real-world braking improvement, I know. But the 20 inch wheels/tires can be bone-shattering. The 19s are just a bit more comfortable to drive. And with decent summer tires, I think you can get close to the at-the-limits handling and grip that the 20s would give. It's all a trade-off.
But if the brakes don't fit, you must acquit. (Wait ...no.) Rather, if the brakes don't fit inside 19 inch wheels, then there's no sense in worrying about it.
Thoughts?
P3D+ brakes are not Brembo. They are just red.
Downsides: Restricts you to larger wheels. Most 18 in wheels won’t fit.
Downsides: Restricts you to larger wheels. Most 18 in wheels won’t fit.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure the non performance brakes are Brembo. Also, Tesla on Twitter
I think there are plenty of 18" wheels that fit but unfortunately the aeros don't.
Then they have some explaining to do because they have a "b" on them
Model 3 "Performance Brake Calipers" just red or different altogether?
You are 100% wrong. The calipers and rotors are both brembo. The caliper even has it embossed into it, look at the top perpendicular to the disk...
Also, take a look at the Brembo lightweight rotor announced. Does it look familiar?
Brembo Introduces Light Brake Disc Concept - aftermarketNews
beastmode13
Member
Indeed there are 18” wheel that will fit PUP 355mm Brembo brakes. In fact there is a Apex groupbuy for 18” that will fit even 380mm Racing Brake BBK.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Snow Drift
[Off-Road Assist] Activated
All M3 come with 4 pot front calipers. Only the pads are thicker on the M3P. So, is the caliper different? (Besides color).
Only 3 real benefits, you have to decide if the second and third ones are "real world" use condition or not:
1) track use, and even there, you need a brake fluid swap out (to prevent boiling) and harder pads for track use
2) cachet value - esp. when you pull up next to the 'Rari, Porsche or Lamborghini with big red Brembo brakes
3) for tweakophiles with money to spend on tuning, there exists an option for lighter weight rotors, saving about 7-8 lbs per corner due to lighter rotor hat, from RB in California. Downside: over $2k for front and rears, but you save about the same unsprung weight compared to getting VS Forged, wheels, which are even more $ at $2600+. So it's actually worth considering. My speculation is that with lightest weight alloys/tires, and this light weight brake rotor kit, we might see someone post a verified time 0-60 very close to 3.0 (from the significantly lower inertial mass on spinup). Not clear if this option available for standard brakes. Also, the rotors are way cooler looking, and may have some benefits in condition #1, given (at least advertised) better cooling of the disk from internal 'convergent vanes' design.
The big benefit with the Performance package is the 3.2 0-60. The brakes are just visual 'arm candy' to show you got the upgraded drivetrain, so that MB AMG 6.3 and BMW M series owners in the know don't try to street race you.
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