AP2 Chatter, Gripes, etc.

[postpast]

Thanks. That was helpful in comparing AP1 to AP2.

Question: Did you ever own or drive an AP1 Tesla in the early days when AP was first turned on? If so, how would you compare early AP1 performance with AP2?

If not, do you believe your comparing a more mature firmware AP1 car you drive with an AP2 Tesla is a fair comparison?

Peanut Gallery: Of course comparing a new software release to an older "mature" software release is fair.

If I buy a new phone that is promised to be better than my old phone, I expect it to be better than my old phone. Saying it is better than when my old phone was released years ago means nothing to me. When the new phone is supposed to have multiple times the hardware speed and billions of miles of NN learning, and all types of new features; yet a year later is still no better than my old phone - there is a problem.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

After driving a brand new Model S loaner with AP2 for over a 1,500 mile road trip with the family, I'm just personally glad to have my AP1 2016 Model S back for daily use, with its "limited" features. I don't care what anyone says... AP2 (even on recent firmware 2017.46.9) is NOT ready for primetime.

Heck, even when only using a feature that is common and functional on other cars from other manufactures, namely adaptive cruise control, was outright dangerous on the AP2 car. IMHO, I wouldn't even consider it viable "public betaware" in its current form on AP2. I've never driven a car from any manufacturer where the adaptive cruise control kept braking on the highway after incorrectly marking a car in another lane as being in my lane. And that happened multiple times, all on well marked roads in clear weather. WOW. Even using this feature in 5 MPH stop-and-go traffic wasn't worth the sudden harsh braking versus the more predictable and smoother AP1 behavior.

And forget steering with AP2. Its just not there yet versus AP1. Basically made all of my family car sick with repeated knee-jerking little adjustments. The only time AP2 was really usable, was when it was on very straight highway with no cars around. Otherwise, too much unexpected behavior with the family literally begging me to drive. And don't even mention the overly-aggressive and nauseating lane changes with AP2. Who are the idiots at Tesla who would approve this kind of behavior for daily driving? Race car drivers?

So all-in-all, I'm perfectly content with my AP1 car, even if there are no new features going forward. Now I really understand and empathize with AP2 owners who are complaining and even downgrading to CPO AP1 cars. Ouch.

Absolutely no offense intended but either this was a gross over exaggeration or there was something wrong with the loaner. I could see not liking the lane changing for some people but I haven’t seen any of the other things you describe on any modern release. Especially the TACC description makes it sound like there were major problems with that particular car.

 

[TaoJones]

Absolutely no offense intended but either this was a gross over exaggeration or there was something wrong with the loaner. I could see not liking the lane changing for some people but I haven’t seen any of the other things you describe on any modern release. Especially the TACC description makes it sound like there were major problems with that particular car.

Just twice today alone, my AP2 (*.50.2) phantom-braked as headcase described above.

Once was on the 710 freeway with no car in front of me In my lane and no overpass in sight (the latter being a common trigger for early release AP2 phantom braking). From 74 to about 60 before I manually accelerated to avoid a potential rear-ending.

The other time was on a 5-lane divided road with parallel parking adjacent the right lane. Again, phantom braking with no car in front of me. Down the same road, with elevation, I can reproduce this issue every time just past a crest. Instead, I remember to move to the left lane now which works around the issue, since again, rapid braking out of the blue *when the driver is not expecting it and must react quickly if there is traffic aft* is not good for the insurance rates.

So... now you’ve heard of it (again) with a version of AP2 .

And the only thing wrong with my TACC is that it’s part of AP2 rather than AP1.

Very much looking forward to *any* AP (presumably AP2) feature adds by Q2 of 2018, which would be earlier than I previously predicted - that previous prediction being the latter half of 2018 after we get the long-awaited Nav updates (Q1) followed by the long-anticipated interior refresh (Q2).

 

[TaoJones]

Thanks. That was helpful in comparing AP1 to AP2.

Question: Did you ever own or drive an AP1 Tesla in the early days when AP was first turned on? If so, how would you compare early AP1 performance with AP2?

If not, do you believe your comparing a more mature firmware AP1 car you drive with an AP2 Tesla is a fair comparison?

Peanut Gallery: Of course comparing a new software release to an older "mature" software release is fair.

If I buy a new phone that is promised to be better than my old phone, I expect it to be better than my old phone. Saying it is better than when my old phone was released years ago means nothing to me. When the new phone is supposed to have multiple times the hardware speed and billions of miles of NN learning, and all types of new features; yet a year later is still no better than my old phone - there is a problem.

Exactly.

Not to mention that we were told AP2 would be at parity with AP1 by Dec 2016 *with a video provided* that touted all of the other things that were coming thereafter. Never minding the 3-month/6-month thing.

Completely reasonable to continue to compare the two. AP1 is what those who weren’t misled (and kept their AP1 cars) have today, and today, AP2 is the less feature-rich, less functional not-so-new kid on the block.

In fact, a year after the AP1 event, we got the first pass of AS (10/15/2015). And it was awful; had an unnatural affinity for freeway exits, unprompted. A year *later*, AS was still a meandering mess, but by Spring of 2017, it started to get more serviceable, and along the way, TACC went from wonky to great. Smooth and relatively reliable. Differentiated vehicles appeared in the IC as did adjacent traffic shapes.

Using the same timeframe, AP2 will be fantabulous in 6 months.

It could happen. Or not.

At least the regular release schedule supports opportunities for continued improvement.

I’d like stop sign reaction (as opposed to mere recognition) that was referenced at the October 2014 AP1 event. Didn’t get done with AP1. Open question as to whether it gets done with AP2. I’d keep the car if it has that. Even with a sub-40mph restriction.

 

[powertoold]

Calisnow owes me $20!

 

[TaoJones]

Calisnow owes me $20!

*chuckle*. In fairness, he’s got until 11:59PM US Pacific (California) Time.

That said, I may post a charitable donation link in the other thread he started (search for Charity $10K) a wee bit early for those with whom I have public or private bets with, as i doubt I’ll be up at midnight and the schedule is filling up for tomorrow.

 

[BigD0g]

I feel very safe with my 1k.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Just twice today alone, my AP2 (*.50.2) phantom-braked as headcase described above.

Once was on the 710 freeway with no car in front of me In my lane and no overpass in sight (the latter being a common trigger for early release AP2 phantom braking). From 74 to about 60 before I manually accelerated to avoid a potential rear-ending.

The other time was on a 5-lane divided road with parallel parking adjacent the right lane. Again, phantom braking with no car in front of me. Down the same road, with elevation, I can reproduce this issue every time just past a crest. Instead, I remember to move to the left lane now which works around the issue, since again, rapid braking out of the blue *when the driver is not expecting it and must react quickly if there is traffic aft* is not good for the insurance rates.

So... now you’ve heard of it (again) with a version of AP2 .

And the only thing wrong with my TACC is that it’s part of AP2 rather than AP1.

Very much looking forward to *any* AP (presumably AP2) feature adds by Q2 of 2018, which would be earlier than I previously predicted - that previous prediction being the latter half of 2018 after we get the long-awaited Nav updates (Q1) followed by the long-anticipated interior refresh (Q2).

Weird, I’ve not seen such an incident in several months(since the firmware version was something in the .30’s) and I heavily use both TACC and AS. I don’t know what to make of things like this other than that it seems like *most* people aren’t having such things happen anymore. Maybe it’s geographic, or specific to a car, or just monumentally bad luck, but I wouldn’t call these things typical of current AP2.

 

[Joe F]

Peanut Gallery: Of course comparing a new software release to an older "mature" software release is fair.

If I buy a new phone that is promised to be better than my old phone, I expect it to be better than my old phone. Saying it is better than when my old phone was released years ago means nothing to me. When the new phone is supposed to have multiple times the hardware speed and billions of miles of NN learning, and all types of new features; yet a year later is still no better than my old phone - there is a problem.

So since you misinterpreted what I said, let me help you. My question, which BTW was not directed to you, was comparing a fairly new AP1 release, to a fairly new AP2 release. But, since you have neither, your viewpoint is immaterial, IMO.

 

[outie]

I have an AP1 car and I got a AP2 loaner (June/17 build) in early December. I felt AP2 was pretty much comparable to AP1, meaning no apparent / major differences between the two under normal driving conditions.

 

[Joe F]

In fact, a year after the AP1 event, we got the first pass of AS (10/15/2015). And it was awful; had an unnatural affinity for freeway exits, unprompted. A year *later*, AS was still a meandering mess, but by Spring of 2017, it started to get more serviceable, and along the way, TACC went from wonky to great. Smooth and relatively reliable. Differentiated vehicles appeared in the IC as did adjacent traffic shapes.

Using the same timeframe, AP2 will be fantabulous in 6 months.

It could happen. Or not.

And that is my point; AP1 took quite a while to get where it is today. And, it’s built on how many years of Mobileye shoulders? AP2 has come, relatively speaking, much further given it’s still in its infancy.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I guess there's the PoV that understands Tesla needed to rebuild things from scratch. But then there's the PoV who understands Tesla also really should have been upfront and honest about their status on getting that done.

IMO it seems obvious that looking back at Tesla's announcements on EAP and even FSD (the 3-6 months stuff, the coast-to-coast end of 2017) in October, 2016 through to January, 2017 painted a very different picture than ended up being the reality.

Not to mention that we were told AP2 would be at parity with AP1 by Dec 2016

We were told much more than that, as it seems one has to keep reminding...

 

[conman]

Lmao 50.3 just came out with rain sensing wipers. Shame it's not an EAP feature.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Lmao 50.3 just came out with rain sensing wipers. Shame it's not an EAP feature.

We welcome it nonetheless!