Adm
Active Member
You may be right. Let me rephrase.
If Apple paid their taxes, infrastructure in the USA would be a little bit less crappy. Replace infrastructure with anything public you feel needs more funding from the government.
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If Apple paid their taxes, infrastructure in the USA would be a little bit less crappy. Replace infrastructure with anything public you feel needs more funding from the government.
Apple is paying their taxes. They were smart, and found a way to pay less. Many other companies have taken advantage of this same opportunity. If I found a legal way to pay less taxes, I would definitely use it. I do not want to give up more than necessary. The government doesn't have an income problem, they have a spending problem. They have no incentive to find ways to do it more efficiently because they just come back for more $$$.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Apple has never been the "good guy", that's just the good marketing image engineered by Jobs you still see. It will evaporate with time.
If you were into computer in the 1970s until today, you'll know I'm right. Apple probably set technology back >5 years so far. They try to halt innovation so they can sell last's years tech, which oddly enough, is usually second hand tech to them. Apple is not an innovator, they are a marketing firm, and they are VERY good at it.
Seriously, how can you dodge taxes and have people love you for it? Just damn good PR.
If you were into computer in the 1970s until today, you'll know I'm right. Apple probably set technology back >5 years so far. They try to halt innovation so they can sell last's years tech, which oddly enough, is usually second hand tech to them. Apple is not an innovator, they are a marketing firm, and they are VERY good at it.
Seriously, how can you dodge taxes and have people love you for it? Just damn good PR.
About Government Laws and evading them legally.
You don't HAVE to give your employees killer benefits. You can give them the minimum mandated coverage, and you can hire a lot of part time help. You don't even have to pay minimum wage. Just put them on salary and work them mega hours.
Apple chooses to have us pay for their share of the necessary public functions to keep society in place. They are good with making the Middle Class subsidize Apple's share of the costs of civilization.
That doesn't make it right, it just means they don't go to jail over it. If Apple could legally sell kiddy pron at a profit without hurting their total sales, it would be a popup on every Apple device. It's just money, and do what it takes to get it. Because when you die, he who has the largest ledger gets a better condo in Heaven.
You don't HAVE to give your employees killer benefits. You can give them the minimum mandated coverage, and you can hire a lot of part time help. You don't even have to pay minimum wage. Just put them on salary and work them mega hours.
Apple chooses to have us pay for their share of the necessary public functions to keep society in place. They are good with making the Middle Class subsidize Apple's share of the costs of civilization.
That doesn't make it right, it just means they don't go to jail over it. If Apple could legally sell kiddy pron at a profit without hurting their total sales, it would be a popup on every Apple device. It's just money, and do what it takes to get it. Because when you die, he who has the largest ledger gets a better condo in Heaven.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I have, and I know you are wrong, at least relative to MS.
Disclosure: my house is rapidly transitioning to Chrome/Android away from Apple. MS is persona non-grata
Apple's competition was CP/M at the time. Micro-Soft of New Mexico made Z-80 expansion boards for the Apple II so they could run business applications under MSBasic ported from CP/M apps.. This was my first exposure to Jobs, Woz, and Bill. Jobs refuses to do tech calls, Woz loves them, and Bill is a really smart guy and friendly. Jobs, Woz, and Bill were friends of a sort. This would come into play in the years to come.
Jobs insistence that Apple only deal with closed architecture and litigate against anyone who tried to compete with the Apple II (or Mac) was the trait that eventually got him fired a few years later, after Apple was circling the drain.
Jobs insistence that Apple only deal with closed architecture and litigate against anyone who tried to compete with the Apple II (or Mac) was the trait that eventually got him fired a few years later, after Apple was circling the drain.
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Apple also is at the forefront of clean energy and non-toxic manufacturing. They are progressive politically -- at least in the US.
And while they most certainly evaded paying taxes on the ~ 200B stashed in Europe, they have been a good corporate taxpayer of the lion's share of their retained earnings, which are in the US.
You live in a black&white fantasy world, while reality are shades of grey.
I first programmed on a S/370? timeshare system prior to desktops and monitors. My first exposure to desktops was Apple II's and CP/M machines (Pertec? Xerox? ???).
MSDOS and the Attack of the Clones was when desktops exploded. More progress was made during the DOS clone years than perhaps any other period of time, even though the number of programmers and companies involved was small. Intense competition.
What Jobs did not catch onto was how businesses would need desktops. He wanted an Apple computer in every home, but instead, every business had a DOS machine running 123, WP, Peachtree? DBaseII? This was a force multiplier in the offices around the country. You could get more work done per hour with a computer than without. It was profitable. People got used to the computers at work, so when it was time to get one for home, they bought what they knew. But all computer buyers had to be pretty savvy back then. No desktops from Walmart for a LONG time.
The mouse and color monitors were not popular for most businesses since they did not actually improve productivity. Even today, the fastest you can go is if you leave the mouse alone.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Rewrite history much ?
Apple litigated against companies that illegaly copied their work or patents.
MS abused it's monopoly for two decades to 'embrace and extend' core OS innovation they lifted from the public domain. Yech
Please, Jobs tried to litigate to protect the concept of the Mouse Driven User Interface when he nabbed that from Xerox PARC. Back then, hobbyists and college students were driving the tech just as much as companies were, and everybody shared. There were no software algorithm patents. Jobs saw that as an opportunity to claim all shared technology was his.
I'm not saying Bill was a saint. But he was normally a target of litigation instead of a plaintiff. He was coding from the era where everybody shared. Sure he was predatory, but he wasn't against progress either.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
We are pretty far into hijacking territory (like the mouse interface), so probably should just discuss why many government believe Apple is scamming them, and how Apple paying less tax has improved all of our lives.
Do the laws include a description of "intent" (and are the laws brief enough that it could be found in a single human's lifetime)? Or is this intuited by the reader(s) and/or only known by those in the room during the deliberation in the legislative bodies?
