Arbitration - Advice needed

[Huncowboy]

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone has any advice with the arbitration process. How to get it started, do I need a lawyer, any useful information, etc.

My issues is this:

2022 Model S with the following issues that Tesla is not able to fix:
- Car pulls hard left on acceleration and on regen. Otherwise it goes straight. They keep performing an alignment, it makes it better (but not fixed) for a bit but then it is off again just a few hundred miles later. They keep charging me for this alignment too.
- Car's steering yoke is never centered after an alignment, rather it is off to the left. They say it is within standards.
- Car is vibrating through 40-60 mph when under acceleration and anytime when cornering and accelerating at the same time. I.e. when you join into traffic in an intersection. (Same as many others are reporting in the long vibration thread.)

... and I also have a long list of other service issues that the car was in for, including a drive unit replacement that took 3-4 weeks. Those issues were addressed though. Car is still under bumper to bumper. It is a lease btw. So I am not sure what to ask for. I would be happy if they would just take it back and refund me for the down time.

Tomorrow I have a service scheduled, which will be my last attempt to get it fixed. I already know they will not do a thing as they have been super arrogant all along. I just figured I will make one recent attempt as the last time I was in was a few weeks ago.

Thanks for any help!

 

[DayTrippin]

Have you tried going to another SC and have them take a look at it?

 

[ucmndd]

I don’t think arbitration is what you’re looking for. That’s generally an avenue for disputes arising from denial of warranty coverage or other disagreements with a tangible financial impact/loss.

Their inability to fix your problems under warranty despite them trying to is more of a lemon law claim vs. arbitration.

Or just straight up approach the service center about a buyback and see what they say.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I bet the pulling under regen and acceleration means something in the suspension is loose, probably from poor factory assembly. On my Model 3, I had a slight pulling and a feeling of instability when hard accelerating. I found a couple of loose suspension linkage nuts in the rear and tightening them completely solved the problem. For your SC to repeatedly adjust the alignment for this pulling issue convinces me that they are clueless. Is there a different SC to try in your area? You could also take it to a real mechanic since this sounds like a pure suspension issue/chassis issue, and nothing specific to the EV aspects. They can check the suspension and subframes for anything loose.

With regards to the steering wheel not being centered, I gave up on the SC with that issue with both the Model 3 and Y. I bought my own laser alignment tool and got the steering wheel perfectly straight on center. My Model S was ok from the factory, and I was shocked! Take it to a 3rd party alignment. Tesla only hires people that can't figure out how to do an alignment correctly. One of their techs literally told me that my Model 3 would automatically fix the steering wheel centering within a 100 miles. So you know I am not making this stuff up.

With the vibration, most people solve that problem by taking a monumental bath on resale value when trading in their Model S for a properly engineered car. Then other people come on here asking if they should buy a used Model S that has had 3 owners in a 1 year and 5K miles.

 

[glide]

Hi,

I am wondering if anyone has any advice with the arbitration process. How to get it started, do I need a lawyer, any useful information, etc.

My issues is this:

2022 Model S with the following issues that Tesla is not able to fix:
- Car pulls hard left on acceleration and on regen. Otherwise it goes straight. They keep performing an alignment, it makes it better (but not fixed) for a bit but then it is off again just a few hundred miles later. They keep charging me for this alignment too.
- Car's steering yoke is never centered after an alignment, rather it is off to the left. They say it is within standards.
- Car is vibrating through 40-60 mph when under acceleration and anytime when cornering and accelerating at the same time. I.e. when you join into traffic in an intersection. (Same as many others are reporting in the long vibration thread.)

... and I also have a long list of other service issues that the car was in for, including a drive unit replacement that took 3-4 weeks. Those issues were addressed though. Car is still under bumper to bumper. It is a lease btw. So I am not sure what to ask for. I would be happy if they would just take it back and refund me for the down time.

Tomorrow I have a service scheduled, which will be my last attempt to get it fixed. I already know they will not do a thing as they have been super arrogant all along. I just figured I will make one recent attempt as the last time I was in was a few weeks ago.

Thanks for any help!

Did you opt out of arbitration when you bought the vehicle? That puts you in a much stronger position.

If not, your MVPA contains details on how to begin the process.

 

[Huncowboy]

I did not opt out of arbitration. So that is my route. I have seen a few posts (success stories) here about it and I am after info on how to go about this.

I no longer care about getting this fixed. If they do get it fixed, it is fine. I will drive it until the end of the term. I was pretty happy with the car until I started to run into issues that they cannot seam to fix. Nor do they care to fix.

Anyways. If you had the arbitration experience please post or PM me. TY!

 

[eskudo12791]

Lemon Law?

 

[Huncowboy]

I cannot do Lemon Law. I am in FL and I did not opt out of arbitration. It seams arbitration actually works though. Just reading here...

 

[glide]

I cannot do Lemon Law. I am in FL and I did not opt out of arbitration. It seams arbitration actually works though. Just reading here...

Arbitration definitely works. You’re just not coming in with as strong a position as if you opted out.

Definitely engage Tesla in the process though if you have not been getting any satisfaction through service.

 

[Kairide]

First thing you should do after accepting delivery of a Tesla is opt out of arbitration. Arbitration tends to favor the business paying for it, limits compensation and may include what you can and can’t say about the outcome afterwards. Hence the reason most businesses try and force people to go the arbitration route.

 

[ucmndd]

What would be the damages/outcome you're expecting to receive from arbitration? Force them to fix things they clearly can't? The vibration issue in particular seems to be very widespread and some sort of fundamental design flaw.

 

[brkaus]

I’d find a sports tuning shop and have them inspect the suspension.

Does arbitration win over lemon law?

 

[Huncowboy]

First thing you should do after accepting delivery of a Tesla is opt out of arbitration. Arbitration tends to favor the business paying for it, limits compensation and may include what you can and can’t say about the outcome afterwards. Hence the reason most businesses try and force people to go the arbitration route.

Actually, reading here arbitration works. I will be happy if they take it back. It is a lease. I am tired of driving a car that does not go straight and costs 115k or whatever it was.

 

[eskudo12791]

Why can you not use lemon law?

 

[ucmndd]

Actually, reading here arbitration works. I will be happy if they take it back. It is a lease. I am tired of driving a car that does not go straight and costs 115k or whatever it was.

If a buyback is your desired outcome I recommend you start that conversation directly with the service center management first.

Then if they say no, you have a clear dispute to take to arbitration and a clear desired outcome.

 

[Kairide]

Actually, reading here arbitration works. I will be happy if they take it back. It is a lease. I am tired of driving a car that does not go straight and costs 115k or whatever it was.

A lemon law buy-back is different than arbitration. If your vehicle meets your state’s lemon law then there would be no arbitration.

 

[glide]

Why can you not use lemon law?

Because OP is in Florida

 

[eskudo12791]

Because OP is in Florida

And Florida has a lemon law?

 

[TLLMRRJ]

And Florida has a lemon law?

No need to ask around here, it's on google:

The Florida Lemon Law is a state statute that protects consumers who purchase or lease defective vehicles. The law applies to new vehicles that have a condition or defect that substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the vehicle.
The law provides remedies to consumers who experience vehicle “nonconformities” that cannot be repaired after multiple attempts. To qualify under the law, the vehicle must have an unreasonable repair history under the warranty, including 3-4 repair attempts for the same problem, 6 repairs total on the vehicle, or 30 days out of service by reason of repair.
If manufacturers are unable to repair warrantied defects, the law compels them to provide consumers with a choice of a refund or a replacement vehicle. The consumer has an unconditional right to opt for a repurchase rather than a replacement.
The law covers cars and trucks purchased for transport of persons or property, as well as boats, RVs, ATVs, SUVs, and motorcycles. To be covered under the Lemon Law, you must have purchased or leased the vehicle in Florida. There is no Lemon Law for used cars in Florida.

 

[eskudo12791]

No need to ask around here, it's on google:

The Florida Lemon Law is a state statute that protects consumers who purchase or lease defective vehicles. The law applies to new vehicles that have a condition or defect that substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the vehicle.
The law provides remedies to consumers who experience vehicle “nonconformities” that cannot be repaired after multiple attempts. To qualify under the law, the vehicle must have an unreasonable repair history under the warranty, including 3-4 repair attempts for the same problem, 6 repairs total on the vehicle, or 30 days out of service by reason of repair.
If manufacturers are unable to repair warrantied defects, the law compels them to provide consumers with a choice of a refund or a replacement vehicle. The consumer has an unconditional right to opt for a repurchase rather than a replacement.
The law covers cars and trucks purchased for transport of persons or property, as well as boats, RVs, ATVs, SUVs, and motorcycles. To be covered under the Lemon Law, you must have purchased or leased the vehicle in Florida. There is no Lemon Law for used cars in Florida.

So how does this not apply to op?